Ron Paul in Iowa; "Except for his foreign policy..."

[lee n. field]

When was that? Before 2008?

Paul ran with an L. behind his name in 1988.

[Perd Hapley]

Paul ran with an L. behind his name in 1988.

Was Micro even born then? Yeah, I know he's been around a while. I was just curious to know when Ron Paul became "popular." 2008 is my estimate.

[seeker_two]

I supported Ron Paul before it was cool.

....and yet you've never voted for him.......




 

[CNYCacher]

Was Micro even born then? Yeah, I know he's been around a while. I was just curious to know when Ron Paul became "popular." 2008 is my estimate.

2007

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Was Micro even born then? Yeah, I know he's been around a while. I was just curious to know when Ron Paul became "popular." 2008 is my estimate.

Wasn't all that popular. There were lots of "wookie suit" gibes due to Micro's support of Paul.

[Perd Hapley]

Wasn't all that popular. There were lots of "wookie suit" gibes due to Micro's support of Paul.

Well, yeah, but that's politics. I was thinking of whether or not people knew who he was. Supporting Paul in '08 was very, very cool, in some circles.

[coppertales]

So, all of that oboma money is sure to buy his reelection?  Don't count on it.  Of course the Republicans are known for shooting themselves in the foot, aka McCain......Paul would be great as president and I would vote for him in a heartbeat.  If bleeding heart liberal Mittens gets the nod, I probably will stay home.  There is no difference between obama's policies and romney's......chris3

[stevelyn]

"Except for his foreign policy..."

That phrase is almost alway code that translates into unconditional support for Israel and the mistaken belief that Ron Paul doesn't support Israel because he's in favor of ending foreign aid $$$$.

This should put that baby to bed.

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/paul-israel-support-wead/2011/12/07/id/420247

[Perd Hapley]

That phrase is almost alway code that translates into unconditional support for Israel and the mistaken belief that Ron Paul doesn't support Israel because he's in favor of ending foreign aid $$$$.

No. It isn't.

[MicroBalrog]

No. It isn't.

He did say 'almost'.

[Perd Hapley]

It isn't almost or even usually. 

[MillCreek]

So I was listening to NPR the other day as they were covering the recent Republican debates and foreign policy.  The issue of Israel came up and how all the major candidates were gung ho on supporting Israel.  The commentator said this is because in order to get the Evangelical vote, you have to be in favor of supporting Israel, and this is one of the few issues that both Evangelicals and the majority of the Jewish population in the US agree upon.

Not having really heard of this concept before listening to the story, is this generally correct in regards to the Evangelicals, I wonder.  Is it due to the religious belief and Israel's role as the Christian Holy Land?

[Jamisjockey]

So I was listening to NPR the other day as they were covering the recent Republican debates and foreign policy.  The issue of Israel came up and how all the major candidates were gung ho on supporting Israel.  The commentator said this is because in order to get the Evangelical vote, you have to be in favor of supporting Israel, and this is one of the few issues that both Evangelicals and the majority of the Jewish population in the US agree upon.

Not having really heard of this concept before listening to the story, is this generally correct in regards to the Evangelicals, I wonder.  Is it due to the religious belief and Israel's role as the Christian Holy Land?

Yes.

[red headed stranger]

It isn't almost or even usually. 

I think "often" would be accurate. 

Not having really heard of this concept before listening to the story, is this generally correct in regards to the Evangelicals, I wonder.  Is it due to the religious belief and Israel's role as the Christian Holy Land?

[/quote

There are some (a couple of my Uncles included) who believe that all of the Jews need to be back in Israel in order for the End Times prophecies to be fulfilled. 

[lee n. field]

Not having really heard of this concept before listening to the story, is this generally correct in regards to the Evangelicals, I wonder.  Is it due to the religious belief and Israel's role as the Christian Holy Land?

Yes.  It's called "dispensationalism".

[MillCreek]

Yes.  It's called "dispensationalism".

Wow, that was a really interesting article on a topic I know nothing about.  Thanks!

[Perd Hapley]

I think "often" would be accurate.

That I could go along with.

A lot of the Christian support for Israel is motivated by the usual foreign policy concerns shared by other Americans. And a lot of it just due to the obvious affinity one would expect to see between two sister religions. Dispensation is only an addition to these motives, albeit a very prominent one in some circles.

[zxcvbob]

My reading of the book of Revelation does not turn up any trace of the United States.  I know it's Middle East-centric, and the Americas were unknown when it was written, but there should be *something* recognizable if we were relevant.  It's got Russia and China and Persia and parts of Africa... maybe even Pakistan and India.  Everything but the Western Hemisphere.

Maybe we've all been raptured (before the Great Tribulation) and there's no one left 

[lee n. field]

Wow, that was a really interesting article on a topic I know nothing about.  Thanks!

The Wikipedia article is accurate, based on what I know and see of dispensationalism.  It is the majority belief in American evangelicalism.*  Left Behind, Late Great Planet Earth, all that stuff.  Even if any given individual isn't up on all the details, it's the "air they breathe", the categories that they think in.

It's a common belief, among those I've interacted with, that we dare not do anything against the interests of the modern state of Israel, especially with respect to their occupying territory.  To go against the modern state of Israel is to call down God's curse against this nation.   And, it's a huge voting block that believes this.

Just for grins, contemplate this: Those popular pundits I hear, think (based on a quirky read of Isaiah 17, an oracle against Damascus) the next thing up on the "prophetic calendar" is that Israel lobs a nuke on Damascus.   And I truly believe that some of these guys would be cheering wildly on the sidelines if something like this does happen.

Bad eschatology has consequences.


*not, I hope it's clear, a belief I share.  I've ranted on this elsewhere.

[zxcvbob]

I started writing a big long-winded reply about eschatology and then deleted it.  Let's just say I'm watching for the building of a 3rd Jewish Temple, and it's fun to speculate on all that has to take place for that to happen.

[roo_ster]

Dispensationalism is a minority belief in Christianity, but some of the more prominent "evangelical" denominations picked it up in the early 20th century (since the most popular flavor was first described in theological circles in the late 19th century).

For my own part, wf buckley's admonition "do not immanentize the eschaton" applies to conservatives andChristians too.

[lee n. field]

Dispensationalism is a minority belief in Christianity, but some of the more prominent "evangelical" denominations picked it up in the early 20th century (since the most popular flavor was first described in theological circles in the late 19th century).

For my own part, wf buckley's admonition "do not immanentize the eschaton" applies to conservatives andChristians too.

I thought that came from Robert Anton Wilson.  Wikipedia (YMMV) suggests Eric Voegelin and has an article on the topic itself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanentize_the_eschaton).

In all these contexts it means "trying to make that which belongs to the afterlife happen here and now (on Earth)" or "trying to create heaven here on Earth."

Something I hear termed "overrealized eschatology".   Usually considered a bad thing.

(See also Intrusion and the Decalogue, if you've got a couple hours with nothing else to do.)

[Perd Hapley]

Even if any given individual isn't up on all the details, it's the "air they breathe", the categories that they think in.

It's a common belief, among those I've interacted with, that we dare not do anything against the interests of the modern state of Israel, especially with respect to their occupying territory.  To go against the modern state of Israel is to call down God's curse against this nation.   And, it's a huge voting block that believes this.

Pretty much. I'd bet most of those have never heard the terms "dispensational" or "dispensationalism," much less "futurist," but they haven't heard of any other way to interpret those passages of scripture. That was my personal experience, back before I became a wicked, Jew-hating replacement theologian. 

[MicroBalrog]

Ron Paul closes in on Gingrich

[AZRedhawk44]

Saw that too, Micro.

I think Paul may end up taking some of the spotlight away from Newt, Romney and Perry for a bit here.  If he wins Iowa, the media is going to have a VERY hard time ignoring him.