Author Topic: Things you can't say anymore: No documented kill of a human by wolves in USA  (Read 14117 times)

De Selby

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Well let's see, here's a chart that actually compares lifetime odds for unintentional deaths:  [url]http://www.nsc.org/news_resources/injury_and_death_statistics/Documents/Odds%20of%20Dying.pdf[I/url]

Lifetime odds of dying from animal bite (other than dogs):  1 in 56,602

Accidental shooting:  1 in 5,981

I doubt there have been enough animal attacks of any kind to have swayed those odds since 2006

If you factor in the odds that someone else with a gun will kill you intentionally, the wolves are starting to look fairly unimportant.  This is hilarious - our love for guns demands that we deny they're dangerous in any way.


"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

RoadKingLarry

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I don't think anyone is denying the potential dangers of firearms, particularly when mishandled which is the cause of the overwhelming majority of "accidental" shootings.
For myself I can't think of many(any?) situations where NOT having the means to adequate selfdefense would be the preferred condition.
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MicroBalrog

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Well let's see, here's a chart that actually compares lifetime odds for unintentional deaths:  [url]http://www.nsc.org/news_resources/injury_and_death_statistics/Documents/Odds%20of%20Dying.pdf[I/url]

Lifetime odds of dying from animal bite (other than dogs):  1 in 56,602

Accidental shooting:  1 in 5,981

I doubt there have been enough animal attacks of any kind to have swayed those odds since 2006

If you factor in the odds that someone else with a gun will kill you intentionally, the wolves are starting to look fairly unimportant.  This is hilarious - our love for guns demands that we deny they're dangerous in any way.


What do the odds someone else with a gun will kill me intentionally have to do with the decision to carry a gun myself?

Carrying a gun yourself does not become more dangerous because other people might shoot you with their own guns.

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makattak

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Well let's see, here's a chart that actually compares lifetime odds for unintentional deaths:  [url]http://www.nsc.org/news_resources/injury_and_death_statistics/Documents/Odds%20of%20Dying.pdf[I/url]

Lifetime odds of dying from animal bite (other than dogs):  1 in 56,602

Accidental shooting:  1 in 5,981

I doubt there have been enough animal attacks of any kind to have swayed those odds since 2006

If you factor in the odds that someone else with a gun will kill you intentionally, the wolves are starting to look fairly unimportant.  This is hilarious - our love for guns demands that we deny they're dangerous in any way.




Number of firearms in the United States: over 200 million privately held. Add in those held by police and the military, we are near to 1 gun per person in the United States. (That's over 300,000,000)

Number of wolves in the United States? Over 11,000. (And lets add in Bears and cougars: ~500,000) So we have around 500,000 dangerous animals and 300,000,000 firearms. That's 600 guns to every 1 dangerous animal.

Now, what are the odds of a specific firearm killing you versus a specific wolf killing you?

Your point may have been correct had you said you are more likely to die from SOME gun killing you than from SOME wolf killing you. However, you did not say that. You said the gun that you carry (as in that specific gun) was more likely to kill you than a (as in any random) wolf. That is blatantly false.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 09:23:39 AM by makattak »
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Jamisjockey

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I don't think anyone is denying the potential dangers of firearms, particularly when mishandled which is the cause of the overwhelming majority of "accidental" shootings.
For myself I can't think of many(any?) situations where NOT having the means to adequate selfdefense would be the preferred condition.

This. 
JD

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Tallpine

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Statistically, car owners are more likely to be killed in a car wreck than they are to use the car to escape from a pack of wolves.

Therefore, if you want to escape from wolves, there are safer ways than buying a car.

 :lol:
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griz

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Tall Pine beat me to it.  I was going to use the comparison that since a measurable number of people have been beat to death by fire extinguishers, keeping one to protect against a single type of fire, say bacon grease flare ups, is false security.

You are ignoring the other uses for the tools in both instances.
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Harold Tuttle

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when attacked by a wolf, drown yourself in a bucket
it's the only way to save the statistics.

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He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

wmenorr67

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Maybe we need to merge this thread with the one about the naked 300 # body builder. [popcorn]
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makattak

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Maybe we need to merge this thread with the one about the naked 300 # body builder. [popcorn]

My money's on the wolves in that fight. One wolf versus roid boy, though, I might have to go with roid boy.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

gunsmith

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Quote
Insert Quote
Quote from: Jocassee on December 07, 2011, 09:28:30 PM
Can't help but think that would be a horrible way to die.


I agree.
The descriptions of what happened based upon the prints and blood that were found gave me the chills.


Timmy Treadwell reportedly said "it would be an honor to be eaten by a Grizzly" but when that honor occurred he tried to have his girlfriend bash the Grizz with a frying pan ;/

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LadySmith

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Timmy Treadwell reportedly said "it would be an honor to be eaten by a Grizzly" but when that honor occurred he tried to have his girlfriend bash the Grizz with a frying pan ;/

Yes, I remember that.
I guess he didn't plan on the part where the bear had to kill him first.
Poor guy & girlfriend.

Now I'm off to read about "'Roid Boy"....BRB
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De Selby

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Statistically, car owners are more likely to be killed in a car wreck than they are to use the car to escape from a pack of wolves.

Therefore, if you want to escape from wolves, there are safer ways than buying a car.

 :lol:

More to the point - statistically, car drivers are more likely to be killed by an airbag than motorcycle riders.  Can you imagine the laugh we'd be having if someone posted a thread about an airbag death, and then said "well, I'm getting that bike licence for sure now!"

The gun will do you well for other things, but it's silly to relate itntodefense from wolves.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

MicroBalrog

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More to the point - statistically, car drivers are more likely to be killed by an airbag than motorcycle riders.  Can you imagine the laugh we'd be having if someone posted a thread about an airbag death, and then said "well, I'm getting that bike licence for sure now!"

The gun will do you well for other things, but it's silly to relate itntodefense from wolves.

Are you ignoring Makattak's point on purpose?
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Tallpine

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Wait - I'm carrying a gun (or several) for defense against cougars, bears, and two-legged snakes, but I should not draw it if I'm attacked by a wolf because I might shoot myself ???

 :P
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230RN

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My hatred of fairy tales started with Peter and the Wolf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_and_the_Wolf

Quote
In the story's ending, the listener is told that "if you listen very carefully, you'd hear the duck quacking inside the wolf's belly, because the wolf in his hurry had swallowed her alive."

"But Mommy, wouldn't the wolf's digestive juices have killed the duck anyhow?"

"Hush up. It's only a story.  Go to your room now."

"And what about Jonah and the whale..." <SLAP!>

"I TOLD you to go to your room!"

I'm not signing this one so nobody will know who posted it.
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French G.

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when attacked by a wolf, drown yourself in a bucket
it's the only way to save the statistics.



And remember, you do not have to run faster than the wolves, just faster than your buddy you knock over. That's some serious Blue Falcon material right there.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

Matthew Carberry

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More to the point - statistically, car drivers are more likely to be killed by an airbag than motorcycle riders.  Can you imagine the laugh we'd be having if someone posted a thread about an airbag death, and then said "well, I'm getting that bike licence for sure now!"

The gun will do you well for other things, but it's silly to relate itntodefense from wolves.

BTW, where in the post did anyone, who doesn't already own a gun, discuss acquiring one solely for the purpose of  protection from wolves?  Which is, by the way, the gun equivalent of your car/motorcycle example.

And, again, you are not comparing apples to apples. You can't, with any useful meaning statistically, compare the risks of mere "ownership of a gun" for any and all purposes with "risk of death in animal attacks".  That comparison, made that way, invalidates any risk placed in the second position as the likelihood for the majority of gun owners of any even experiencing any given individual threat one might be armed against, much less die from, even combined, are statistically infinitesmal.

Try this hypothesis, controlling for other variables, car drivers in accidents where airbags could have made a difference are statistically less likely to die in that collision than drivers of cars without airbags in the exact same situation.

For animal attacks it would be, controlling for other variables (such as hunting, during which the hunter is typically not armed solely for the purpose of animal protection, and, once the prey animal is down, has changed the circumstances and likelihood of a large predator encounter) those who enter areas where large predators exist and are armed for the purpose of defense against such animal attacks are less likely to be killed in such an attack than those not armed in the same situation.

Those are statistically meaningful comparisons to make and test.

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gunsmith

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Wait - I'm carrying a gun (or several) for defense against cougars, bears, and two-legged snakes, but I should not draw it if I'm attacked by a wolf because I might shoot myself ???

 :P

Tallpine, you're missing the obvious!! The Wolf is going to take your gun away from you & then use it against you.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
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gunsmith

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Are you ignoring Makattak's point on purpose?

It's OK, he does that to everyone.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

Lee

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That's one smart buffalo...knock your little friend down so the wolves eat him.

"(I'm agin' the "kill 'em all" mindset but it sure is nice to slap a hippy in the face with reality once in a while.)"

I'm thinking once just got smacked ...by wolves. A tragedy for sure...but the outcome isn't that surprising. I'm not a hippie...but I don't think wiping wolves out is a good response to a very naive person running alone, unarmed, while listening to her Ipod, in the middle of Alaska.     
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 08:56:16 PM by Lee »

gunsmith

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That's one smart buffalo...knock your little friend down so the wolves eat him.

"(I'm agin' the "kill 'em all" mindset but it sure is nice to slap a hippy in the face with reality once in a while.)"

I'm thinking once just got smacked ...by wolves. A tragedy for sure...but the outcome isn't that surprising. I'm not a hippie...but I don't think wiping wolves out is a good response to a very naive person running alone, unarmed, while listening to her Ipod, in the middle of Alaska.     

true enough, but you can be safe in Alaska-just find some one like her to jog with! :angel:
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

Tallpine

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That's one smart buffalo...knock your little friend down so the wolves eat him.

"(I'm agin' the "kill 'em all" mindset but it sure is nice to slap a hippy in the face with reality once in a while.)"

I'm thinking once just got smacked ...by wolves. A tragedy for sure...but the outcome isn't that surprising. I'm not a hippie...but I don't think wiping wolves out is a good response to a very naive person running alone, unarmed, while listening to her Ipod, in the middle of Alaska.     

The wolves just need to be taught that the two-legged naked bears aren't safe to play with  ;)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

280plus

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If you ask me, the big buff was knowingly doing the little buff a favor.  ;)
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Lee

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What?  By ramming him in the gonads before he get's eaten alive by wolves?   :laugh: