Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident

[roo_ster]

This is getting old. 

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/jan/24/knox-county-das-office-oak-ridge-officers-wont/

"Knox County prosecutors will not file charges against two off-duty Oak Ridge police officers accused of pulling a handgun on a motorist during an alleged road-rage incident last month."


Compare & contrast:
"Brock Estep, 31, of Knoxville, alleged that two men in a Toyota Avalon attempted to cut him off in traffic as they pulled out of the Waffle House parking lot at the corner of Weisgarber Road and Papermill Drive on Dec. 15."

"The officers' names have not been released."


"We determined they acted reasonably," Gill said.


Maybe it was mutual hostility, maybe they met some threshold of perceived danger.  Thing is, anyone here expect to not have to spend big bucks defending such actions, were they to pull guns on an off-duty cop?

As instapundit writes, "Laws are for the little people."
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/135931/

[HankB]

In terms of public opinion / public perception, the effect of one isolated incident is trivial . . . but when people become aware of many such incidents of LEOs behaving badly, the cumulative effects become significant. In some places, even regular, normally law abiding citizens are starting to regard the police as adversaries.

Which is sad . . . 

[Fitz]

There was one here in the DC area recently regarding a motorcyclist and an off duty MD cop. The video was awful. Friggin jerks.

[Blakenzy]

It makes sense from an authoritarian POV. In order for Police to be able to control the population through force, there has to be some form of distinct separation between them and the general population. If police were treated under the same law as the rest of the citizenry, they would be very cautious at using violence to subdue and keep people in check. This would make them less effective as tools of government control over the populace. It is therefore in the best interest of those who govern us that the police remain relatively unaccountable for aggression against "civilians". They are more likely to enforce government's will if they are not held responsible for any "damages" they cause.

On a side note, NEVER exit your vehicle in a road-rage incident to tell the other driver "what is what".

[Fitz]

I'm fortunate... most of the cops i know personally are very much pro-citizens rights.

I have never personally KNOWN the stereotypical JBT-type "officer."


In fact, in a recent conversation with one of my cop friends, he identified the moment he's asked to confiscate weapons from people a'la New Orleans will be the moment he takes off the uniform

[roo_ster]

I'm fortunate... most of the cops i know personally are very much pro-citizens rights.

I have never personally KNOWN the stereotypical JBT-type "officer."


In fact, in a recent conversation with one of my cop friends, he identified the moment he's asked to confiscate weapons from people a'la New Orleans will be the moment he takes off the uniform

Most I know are like that, but a few are going to follow orders, whatever they may be.

[Fitz]

As a side note... When I was a drill sergeant, my troops EVERY cycle got a long block of instruction on where their loyalties should lie (i.e. the constitution) and some Situational brainstorming regarding what they should do if they're ever ordered to do  unconstitutional things.

[brimic]

I'm fortunate... most of the cops i know personally are very much pro-citizens rights.

I have never personally KNOWN the stereotypical JBT-type "officer."

Me too, mostly...

The cops I know personally or that are in my family are the former type.
I have a feeling that the JBT-types mainly keep to their own JBT-cliques.

I have had experience with some of these types a decade or so ago when I was in a billiards league. There were about 20 taverns in the league, we played a couple of times a week with all different kinds of people in different environments- outlaw bikers, punk rockers, Western bars, upper middle class types, emo/goths, old farts, and everyone got along really well. There was a 'cop bar' in the league that noone like to play at- the clientele there were a bunch of meatheads- rude, obnoxious, tried to intimidate everyone who came into the place, just all around high speed-low drag jackoffs.

[griz]

It makes sense from an authoritarian POV. In order for Police to be able to control the population through force, there has to be some form of distinct separation between them and the general population. If police were treated under the same law as the rest of the citizenry, they would be very cautious at using violence to subdue and keep people in check. This would make them less effective as tools of government control over the populace. It is therefore in the best interest of those who govern us that the police remain relatively unaccountable for aggression against "civilians". They are more likely to enforce government's will if they are not held responsible for any "damages" they cause.

On a side note, NEVER exit your vehicle in a road-rage incident to tell the other driver "what is what".

That is so over the top that I can't tell if it is sarcasm or not.  Just to start, only in a police state do the police control the population through force.  Big difference between using force to subdue an individual and using force as a policy on an entire population. 

[zxcvbob]

This is getting old. 

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/jan/24/knox-county-das-office-oak-ridge-officers-wont/

"Knox County prosecutors will not file charges against two off-duty Oak Ridge police officers accused of pulling a handgun on a motorist during an alleged road-rage incident last month."

They'll probably celebrate by going out and shooting someone's dog  (it's OK, it wasn't a police dog)

[Blakenzy]

Just to start, only in a police state do the police control the population through force.

So where exactly do you think we are headed?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

There was one here in the DC area recently regarding a motorcyclist and an off duty MD cop. The video was awful. Friggin jerks.

yea the video was awful.  and awful edited. if the doofus on the bike hadn't tried that hack job editing he likely woulda walked with an 80 dollar ticket .  he beat the wiretap charge but hes still got some sweet traffic charges he richly deserved

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

This is getting old. 

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/jan/24/knox-county-das-office-oak-ridge-officers-wont/

"Knox County prosecutors will not file charges against two off-duty Oak Ridge police officers accused of pulling a handgun on a motorist during an alleged road-rage incident last month."


Compare & contrast:
"Brock Estep, 31, of Knoxville, alleged that two men in a Toyota Avalon attempted to cut him off in traffic as they pulled out of the Waffle House parking lot at the corner of Weisgarber Road and Papermill Drive on Dec. 15."

"The officers' names have not been released."


"We determined they acted reasonably," Gill said.


Maybe it was mutual hostility, maybe they met some threshold of perceived danger.  Thing is, anyone here expect to not have to spend big bucks defending such actions, were they to pull guns on an off-duty cop?

As instapundit writes, "Laws are for the little people."
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/135931/

what happened? is there evidence that causes you to believe they didn't act reasonably?

[Fitz]

yea the video was awful.  and awful edited. if the doofus on the bike hadn't tried that hack job editing he likely woulda walked with an 80 dollar ticket .  he beat the wiretap charge but hes still got some sweet traffic charges he richly deserved

Source?

Also, what does that have to do with anything?

FACT: Off duty cop got out of the car and DREW A *expletive deleted*ING GUN, without identifying himself immediately, on a dude.

A dude who was NOT, you know, raping, robbing, or killing anyone.

Also, i didn't see any edits. I saw continuous helmet cam footage.

And the kicker was: he wasn't even riding that recklessly.


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK5bMSyJCsg


I see one continuous vid.

Lemme guess. He's a bad guy cuz he's riding a motorcycle, right?

THey got him for 80 MPH.

EIGHTY.

YOu think that's worthy of getting a gun drawn on you?

I suppose you've never travelled 80MPH?


Everyone went nuts because his SPEEDO said a huge number. He also had gearing changes on the bike, and no speedo-healer.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Source?

Also, what does that have to do with anything?

FACT: Off duty cop got out of the car and DREW A *expletive deleted*ING GUN, without identifying himself immediately, on a dude.

A dude who was NOT, you know, raping, robbing, or killing anyone.

Also, i didn't see any edits. I saw continuous helmet cam footage.

And the kicker was: he wasn't even riding that recklessly.


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK5bMSyJCsg


I see one continuous vid.

Lemme guess. He's a bad guy cuz he's riding a motorcycle, right?

THey got him for 80 MPH.

EIGHTY.

YOu think that's worthy of getting a gun drawn on you?

I suppose you've never travelled 80MPH?


Everyone went nuts because his SPEEDO said a huge number. He also had gearing changes on the bike, and no speedo-healer.

you missed all the hoopla?  search is your friend  it was discussed here.  and he rode a wheelie at 110 as he passed a bus on the right.  he topped out at 130 in traffic and ironically?  his own hd vid is what nailed him. stupid should hurt. you imagine junior didn't know it was a cop?  is that the thin green line?  or just you deciding to back up a squid rider? cop wasn't outa control and never pointed the gun anywhere unsafe.

i bet that was a real career limiter for the boy. and i know if the grown son i let live in my basement got my house raided he and i would have a come to jesus moment.  you didn't hear the cop identify himself?  is that cause you saw the vid he edited the audio outa? or you believe the badge on his belt was invisible?

[griz]

So where exactly do you think we are headed?

Maybe I should have asked a simple question so I could understand your intent:  Are you in favor of an authoritarian police state?

[Fitz]

you missed all the hoopla?  search is your friend  it was discussed here.  and he rode a wheelie at 110 as he passed a bus on the right.  he topped out at 130 in traffic and ironically?  his own hd vid is what nailed him. stupid should hurt. you imagine junior didn't know it was a cop?  is that the thin green line?  or just you deciding to back up a squid rider? cop wasn't outa control and never pointed the gun anywhere unsafe.

i bet that was a real career limiter for the boy. and i know if the grown son i let live in my basement got my house raided he and i would have a come to jesus moment.  you didn't hear the cop identify himself?  is that cause you saw the vid he edited the audio outa? or you believe the badge on his belt was invisible?

Watch the full video. The identification came after "Get off the motorcycle, get off the motorcycle, get off the motorcycle"

I see no badge. Maybe this guy didn't either. Especially since he was likely focused on the GUN

I say again. The radar caught him going passed the unmarked at 80.

the guy didn't have a speedo healer after his gearing change. What is on the video is irrelevant, as the speedo was not accurate.

The radar caught him at 80.

Wheelie?


LOL

yeah, sure.

That's cause for drawing a weapon on someone.

They threw the bull*expletive deleted* wiretapping charge on because they were caught being pricks.

Thin green line? What is that supposed to mean?


Did you watch the video or are you just going off what people are saying on cop forums?

I've been 130+ on my motorcycle at the track. He was NOT going 130.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Watch the full video. The identification came after "Get off the motorcycle, get off the motorcycle, get off the motorcycle"

I say again. The radar caught him going passed the unmarked at 80.

the guy didn't have a speedo healer after his gearing change. What is on the video is irrelevant, as the speedo was not accurate.

The radar caught him at 80.

Wheelie?


LOL

yeah, sure.

That's cause for drawing a weapon on someone.

They threw the bull*expletive deleted* wiretapping charge on because they were caught being pricks.

Thin green line? What is that supposed to mean?


Did you watch the video or are you just going off what people are saying on cop forums?

I've been 130+ on my motorcycle at the track. He was NOT going 130.

no radar  try again  i watched the long version of the video  the first one he posted before he decided to cast himself as a victim and started peddling the "the video wasn't working line"

[Fitz]

Yes radar. I've seen the citation. They got him on radar doing 80.


But we'll just agree to disagree.

BTW: if they didn't have radar (or pacing,, and we know it wasn't that), the ticket wouldn't have stuck either. Just sayin.

With all the hoopla, don't you think if they could have gotten him for 130 they would have?


Trust me. dude was NOT doing 130. If you think so, your sense of speed is WAY off

[zxcvbob]

Thin green line? What is that supposed to mean?

Means your CMYK printer is using yellow instead of magenta.   

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Yes radar. I've seen the citation. They got him on radar doing 80.


But we'll just agree to disagree.

BTW: if they didn't have radar (or pacing,, and we know it wasn't that), the ticket wouldn't have stuck either. Just sayin.

With all the hoopla, don't you think if they could have gotten him for 130 they would have?


Trust me. dude was NOT doing 130. If you think so, your sense of speed is WAY off

http://woofie2.pixiq.com/files/blog/carlosmiller/uploads/2010/04/AnthonyGraber_939x689.jpg

[Fitz]

"visually estimated" above 100


Cited for 80



Radar said 80.


You still haven't addressed ANY of the rest of my post.

But fine. You win. Motorcyclist was wrong and deserved an armed encounter. Hell, the cop probably should have shot him, to keep dangerous criminals like him off the streets!

By the way, that paperwork's *expletive deleted*ed too. He didn't rev. I hear no revving on the with-audio vid. Trumped up bull*expletive deleted* from a jackass cop

The full vid showed NOTHING worthy of getting a gun drawn on him. NOTHING

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

can you show that citation?  i just looked and couldn't and there is no mention of radar there.  there is mention of the second trooper and he coulda shot radar . i think junior got off light.  got stupid and it bit him in the butt

[Fitz]

can you show that citation?  i just looked and couldn't and there is no mention of radar there.  there is mention of the second trooper and he coulda shot radar . i think junior got off light.  got stupid and it bit him in the butt

Again, answer my question: Was there ANYTHING on that stop worthy of getting a gun pulled?

Want me to ask the rider to scan a copy of the citation to post here?

Also, did you notice how the cop attempted to hide the gun when his pal showed up with the dashcam?

Yeah. He knew he was wrong

[roo_ster]

what happened? is there evidence that causes you to believe they didn't act reasonably?

Read my response/comment in the OP.