Author Topic: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident  (Read 32381 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2012, 09:04:27 AM »
you trying to ride the false charges band wagon too?
  you fellers do realize the difference between false charges and having a case thrown out? to be false charges someone has to have lied or fabricated.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-05-08/news/bs-md-hermann-police-wiretap-20100508_1_state-trooper-graber-s-case-camera

I asked Baltimore criminal defense attorney Steven D. Silverman whether he's ever seen Maryland wiretap law used the way it's being used against Graber. "Never, never, never," he said. And while he said prosecutors appear to be applying the law correctly, he noted, "I guess it's more of the 'contempt of cop' than the violation of the wiretapping law."

the night junior first posted he commented
"he was pretty cool, only wrote me for 80"
he didn't become a victim till later.
i suspect his editing down the 23 second clip to play that role bought him the ride.  and the enhanced charges.

its a shame he didn't get a real lawyer right away  there was a simple way to make it impossible for them to upgrade his charges but he was too busy posing to do that
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Fitz

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2012, 09:14:50 AM »
"an actual reason why the charge wasn't bull*expletive deleted*"

you mean other than the fact that md law makes 2 party consent a  requirement? and still does as we speak?

"Still doesn't invalidate ANYthing I said."

other than your earlier claims about radar?


"Fact: speedos are not a valid indicator of speed, especially on bikes. Even factory, they GROSSLY overestimate speed. I think there was a big deal about this when the k7 GSXRs came out, because the indicated speed was 10-15 percent higher than actual speed. Going with a different rear sprocket will greatly exacerbate this."


his speedo isn't driven off the front wheel? did he change tire/wheel size?



Speedo is not driven off the rear wheel, guy.

When was the last time you rode a motorcycle? I'm wondering how you got so biased against them.

Yes, the charges were bullshit, because the law is bullshit.
Fitz

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2012, 09:27:01 AM »
i like bikes miss mine.
ask your bud what changed over night.  how it went from "he was pretty cool he only wrote me for 80" to him being a victim. i happened to catch his initial post and thought at the time he was pretty bright.
then his view changed and he posted the short version with the excuse about the audio. since i'd heard the audio the night before i knew i was being lied to.  thats never good.  a wiser revolutionary woulda paid that first ticket right away.  the he coulda fought the upgrades under double jeopardy.  i truly wise person would not have been in that spot at all and definitely never posted video of his crimes.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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dogmush

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2012, 09:33:55 AM »
you trying to ride the false charges band wagon too?
 

Nope.  Words have meanings.  I never used the words "False Charges".

I think the cops and prosecutors together charged him with the most serious crime they could warp to fit in an attempt to intimidate him.  And I think they did it knowing that there was no chance of conviction because that officer had no expectation of privacy, and was in public.  I think they did the math and guessed they could intimidate him into toeing the line with the threat of a serious crime because he didn't have the resources to really fight it.

Hence "Bullshit Charges".  FWIW, I agree they stayed [just] on the legal side of misconduct.  

On another issue.  It's only a matter of time IMO until one of these LEO's that draws weapons in inappropriate circumstances gets dropped by a citizen.  I wonder how the defense will go with the "He was plainclothes and came at me with a gun, I was in fear for my life" line?

Fitz

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2012, 09:42:12 AM »
Nope.  Words have meanings.  I never used the words "False Charges".

I think the cops and prosecutors together charged him with the most serious crime they could warp to fit in an attempt to intimidate him.  And I think they did it knowing that there was no chance of conviction because that officer had no expectation of privacy, and was in public.  I think they did the math and guessed they could intimidate him into toeing the line with the threat of a serious crime because he didn't have the resources to really fight it.

Hence "Bull*expletive deleted* Charges".  FWIW, I agree they stayed [just] on the legal side of misconduct.  

On another issue.  It's only a matter of time IMO until one of these LEO's that draws weapons in inappropriate circumstances gets dropped by a citizen.  I wonder how the defense will go with the "He was plainclothes and came at me with a gun, I was in fear for my life" line?

It won't go well at all.

Folks like Officer CSD will say "Fry him! Cop was right! He shouldn't have been committing the mortal sin of SPEEDING!

I never said "false charges," either. I said "trumped up", "Bogus," and "Bullshit"

all three phrases apply.



Fitz

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2012, 10:00:39 AM »
Nope.  Words have meanings.  I never used the words "False Charges".

I think the cops and prosecutors together charged him with the most serious crime they could warp to fit in an attempt to intimidate him.  And I think they did it knowing that there was no chance of conviction because that officer had no expectation of privacy, and was in public.  I think they did the math and guessed they could intimidate him into toeing the line with the threat of a serious crime because he didn't have the resources to really fight it.

Hence "Bull*expletive deleted* Charges".  FWIW, I agree they stayed [just] on the legal side of misconduct.  

On another issue.  It's only a matter of time IMO until one of these LEO's that draws weapons in inappropriate circumstances gets dropped by a citizen.  I wonder how the defense will go with the "He was plainclothes and came at me with a gun, I was in fear for my life" line?

i believe its already happened.
that our young hero didn't know it was the cops is another area of contention.
its is possible that the old adage "never attribute to malice that which could be caused by stupidity"
its possible that junior didn't know that was a cop when he looked over his shoulder at the car catching up with him, its possible but i like to thinks he was smarter. in my day when we were foolish and a car came up on us like that we knew who it was. juniors s/a was a bit week  he rode up on the unmarked car then went 2 lanes over and  passed the bus on one wheel. he did that in sight of the trooper as he cut back in front of the bus. maybe he didn't see the marked cop in the median too.
any idea how to find this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_732210&src_vid=RK5bMSyJCsg&v=9TICuwenwcs
its been removed
my interpretation of him turning his head to look back as the cop caught him was that he knew he was had.
i similarly do not share fitz's view that the cop "was hiding his gun" from the dash cam.  i don't believe the other cop was that close until the gun was already holstered. and see no reason for the cop to be worried even if it was filmed. that stop was dejavu for me and typical of the stops i've seen where one pushes the envelope in traffic on a bike.  the cops have this silly idea that guys on bikes will run and like to discourage that. i can't see anywhere where the gun was anywhere near our hero's face and in fact the cop kept his booger hook where it was supposed to be and the muzzle pointed correctly.

cop cut junior slack and let him keep bike and no reckless. when junior tried to play games cop took back the slack.  theres a lesson to be learned but i'm not sure juniors a fast learner. especially since he apparently showed fitz some more paper. he would be wise not to drive like that in va. its not as lenient as md though you can tape to your hearts content
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2012, 10:02:53 AM »
It won't go well at all.

Folks like Officer CSD will say "Fry him! Cop was right! He shouldn't have been committing the mortal sin of SPEEDING!

I never said "false charges," either. I said "trumped up", "Bogus," and "Bull*expletive deleted*"

all three phrases apply.






"So, these are the circumstances in which false charges are OK?"

who said this?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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dogmush

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2012, 10:28:07 AM »
i believe its already happened.
that our young hero didn't know it was the cops is another area of contention.
its is possible that the old adage "never attribute to malice that which could be caused by stupidity"
its possible that junior didn't know that was a cop when he looked over his shoulder at the car catching up with him, its possible but i like to thinks he was smarter. in my day when we were foolish and a car came up on us like that we knew who it was. juniors s/a was a bit week  he rode up on the unmarked car then went 2 lanes over and  passed the bus on one wheel. he did that in sight of the trooper as he cut back in front of the bus. maybe he didn't see the marked cop in the median too.
any idea how to find this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_732210&src_vid=RK5bMSyJCsg&v=9TICuwenwcs
its been removed
my interpretation of him turning his head to look back as the cop caught him was that he knew he was had.
i similarly do not share fitz's view that the cop "was hiding his gun" from the dash cam.  i don't believe the other cop was that close until the gun was already holstered. and see no reason for the cop to be worried even if it was filmed. that stop was dejavu for me and typical of the stops i've seen where one pushes the envelope in traffic on a bike.  the cops have this silly idea that guys on bikes will run and like to discourage that. i can't see anywhere where the gun was anywhere near our hero's face and in fact the cop kept his booger hook where it was supposed to be and the muzzle pointed correctly.

cop cut junior slack and let him keep bike and no reckless. when junior tried to play games cop took back the slack.  theres a lesson to be learned but i'm not sure juniors a fast learner. especially since he apparently showed fitz some more paper. he would be wise not to drive like that in va. its not as lenient as md though you can tape to your hearts content

And that's where your bias is showing through.  Believe it or not I agree that he was driving like a *expletive deleted*che.  And he absolutely should have gotten the ticket (or more).  The rider here is far from blameless, which is part of how it's so easy for you and others to gloss on law enforcement's misdeeds.

I object to LE's behavior here in two (and only two) parts.

1. Approaching with a pistol drawn.  Lets assume for the moment that the rider had run.  What's the officer going to do? Pop a few shots at the back of a fast receding motorcycle?  What's his backstop?  They were on a freeway offramp, so the bullets are already pointed up (The land is sloped).  Where on his departments use of force matrix is reckless driving?  Not at the deadly force level.  When he got out of his car, that rider had done nothing that indicated he was going to be violent.  In fact the opposite, as he'd stopped. So the LEO escalated to deadly force by drawing a weapon where none was needed, and in fact, he would have been in trouble if he'd used it.  In fact he brandished his weapon, in the full meaning of the word.  LEO's are supposed to deescalate encounters, not escalate them.

2. He did not, in fact, "take back his slack".  He, his department, and the prosecutorescalated once again.  This time out of IMO nothing but spite.  As I said, any lawyer worth his salt knew the wiretapping charge wouldn't fly.  There's tons of case law about videotaping in public.  They took back the slack on the traffic charges, which was fine if a little vindictive, and then added another BS charge in an attempt to either intimidate him or "teach him a lesson".  It's a pretty blatant bullying move.

Those are the two parts where LE is at fault in this situation.  The rider needs to own his own part in creating it, and tickets, loss of license, or bike could reasonably all be a part of his part.  But in those two actions, it's all on the LE involved and they were in the wrong.  I have seen no ownership of their misdeeds yet, or even acknowledgement of them.  Hence the continued argument.

Fitz

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2012, 10:35:14 AM »
Take back the slack?


LOL


And this is acceptable to you, because the rider was acting like a jackass.

*expletive deleted*ck someone's rights, as long as they're a jackass, right CSD?


I'm finished with this discussion. It's really good to know who on this board believes in the selective "granting" or "taking" of rights from someone, based on whether or not they "needed their pee pee slapped."


Fitz

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2012, 04:11:00 PM »
as far as i know the manner in which that cop stopped the guy falls within his agencies guidelines. towards the upper end of them perhaps but all bikers pay for the sins of the few. it was certainly no worse than several of my dumb encounters of the law enforcement kind. the only thing his agency might ding him on is for not writing junior up for the full range of offenses and hauling his bike to impound and him to jail.  watching them wrap chains around your bike and haul it off swinging on the belts of an old style tow truck is "instructive".


i think they perceived his actions as a chicken stuff move by a punk kid and responded. kid may well be paying for some of what the other revolutionaries did with his vid. but i believe he was the first one to play editing games. like i said i caught this vid right after he posted it when it was in "look at me aren't i cool!" status. before he got with his peers and became a revolutionary being ground under the boot of the man. again ask your bud what changed with his position overnite.  i think he was posing for the crowd
as the defense attorney noted they charged within the law. kid had his day in court and the law may be changed. or clarified. its gonna fall on the legislature to do that.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Fitz

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #60 on: January 26, 2012, 04:13:31 PM »
as far as i know the manner in which that cop stopped the guy falls within his agencies guidelines. towards the upper end of them perhaps but all bikers pay for the sins of the few. it was certainly no worse than several of my dumb encounters of the law enforcement kind. the only thing his agency might ding him on is for not writing junior up for the full range of offenses and hauling his bike to impound and him to jail.  watching them wrap chains around your bike and haul it off swinging on the belts of an old style tow truck is "instructive".


i think they perceived his actions as a chicken stuff move by a punk kid and responded. kid may well be paying for some of what the other revolutionaries did with his vid. but i believe he was the first one to play editing games. like i said i caught this vid right after he posted it when it was in "look at me aren't i cool!" status. before he got with his peers and became a revolutionary being ground under the boot of the man. again ask your bud what changed with his position overnite.  i think he was posing for the crowd
as the defense attorney noted they charged within the law. kid had his day in court and the law may be changed. or clarified. its gonna fall on the legislature to do that.


The manner in which the nazis threw jews into ovens fell within their government's guidelines. That doesn't make it right

Your argument keeps boiling down to "He was speeding, he's a punk kid."

He's not my bud, he's not my friend. But he was mistreated. If you can't see that, I don't know what to say. Your views on law enforcement are ... scary, to say the least.
Fitz

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #61 on: January 26, 2012, 04:33:37 PM »
he was mistreated?!  heck when they came back with the bonus charges they gave him a week before they let him turn himself in. he was recovering from medical stuff. thats like claiming if i go up to you and talk out my butt about you wife and child i've been mistreated when you pop me in the mouth.  treated hard? yea  mistreated? not so much   he apparently wanted his day in court and he got it and prevailed. heck he can be famous if the legislature fixes the law
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Fitz

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2012, 04:36:34 PM »
he was mistreated?!  heck when they came back with the bonus charges they gave him a week before they let him turn himself in. he was recovering from medical stuff. thats like claiming if i go up to you and talk out my butt about you wife and child i've been mistreated when you pop me in the mouth.  treated hard? yea  mistreated? not so much   he apparently wanted his day in court and he got it and prevailed. heck he can be famous if the legislature fixes the law

We're arguing in circles. If you can't see how he's mistreated in this case, I worry for you.

Good day
Fitz

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freakazoid

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2012, 01:19:28 AM »
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2012, 03:56:30 AM »
^^^ LOL!!!  :police: [ar15] :cool:
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2012, 08:31:39 AM »
back in the day they would tap your rear wheel with their front bumper to put you down
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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dogmush

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2012, 08:32:41 AM »
back in the day they would tap your rear wheel with their front bumper to put you down

So what?

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2012, 08:59:11 AM »
would leave a mark.  did make you either give up next time or buy a faster bike
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Fitz

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2012, 09:03:22 AM »
That's what they should of done to this kid... put him down.


*expletive deleted*er was speeding. That's like... TERRORISM or something.


He should be in gitmo
Fitz

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I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

-MicroBalrog

wmenorr67

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #69 on: January 28, 2012, 09:13:25 AM »
Good thing the guy didn't have a coffee can on the bike with him. >:D
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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #70 on: January 28, 2012, 09:16:23 AM »
back in the day they would tap your rear wheel with their front bumper to put you down

Wonderful, wonderful people.
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dogmush

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #71 on: January 28, 2012, 09:17:56 AM »
would leave a mark.  did make you either give up next time or buy a faster bike

That's seriously your litmus test for .gov agent's behavior?  It's not as bad as it used to be?  Really?

Aren't you part black?

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2012, 09:24:59 AM »
Wonderful, wonderful people.

i should qualify that it was not state troopers it was pg county cops.  they are in a class all their own.  and they were dumping teens in some cases what we call today tweeners
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2012, 09:58:37 AM »
That's seriously your litmus test for .gov agent's behavior?  It's not as bad as it used to be?  Really?

Aren't you part black?

No, his litmus test is if it happened to him when he was growing up, then everyone else deserves to get the same treatment.

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Re: Oak Ridge officers won't be charged in road-rage incident
« Reply #74 on: January 28, 2012, 11:57:58 AM »
Dear CSD, at what point did it become ok for the cop to pull his pistol? Also, when he looked back, what exactly was he supposed to see to know that he had been caught, the unmarked police car? The cop most certainly did not announce he was a cop before he pulled his pistol, he already had it out when he opened the door. And when exactly did he rev his engine? When he was foot backing up to keep from being hit by some jackass who pulls in front of him? And what was the person in the car in front supposed to think when they see someone step out of their car with a pistol drawn!? If that had been me in that car it would of not ended well for that cop.
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic