Computer privileges revoked - permanently!

[Perd Hapley]

The context of the article and the phrasing clearly implies it was a gift.

Not that I saw. It claims that the parent "stole" the car, then it links to another NYRA article that indicates the car belonged to the parents.

    For the record, Mom believes him.

    But she and her husband set two rules when they bought the car at Thanksgiving: No booze, and always keep the car locked. The car sold within two weeks, but Hambleton said she will continue the ad for another week – just for the feedback.

But let's suppose it really does belong to this 19-year-old. Well, he's 19 years old. What legal rights does he not have, as a 19-year-old, to have his legal property restored to him? Also, vehicles in the U.S. have titles, legal documents substantiating ownership. Is it even legal to sell someone else's car without their permission? Otherwise, what is a title for?

And what is that website for? If it's for defending the rights of young people, why is it whining about a legal adult who chooses not to defend his own rights (if the car really belongs to him). Why doesn't NYRA excoriate the son for laying down for this, rather than having his mother charged with auto theft?

Sorry, Micro, you're just backing a losing horse with this group. Whatever you may believe about the rights of young people, they make your beliefs looks stupid.

[BlueStarLizzard]

ahhhh so what are those things we , and maybe someday you, are obligated to provide?  and equally important why?

Food, clothing, shelter, education (both formal and informal) and medical care.

Education includes the principles of ownership and property. They can't complete the lesson unless thet have some things to call their own.

And I'm not going to bother explaining why. You know why, and you are purposly being obtuse, maybe because you have trouble with the concept that you don't own your children.

[Tuco]

You made them, then they are YOUR responsibility. They didn't have a say in their existence, they owe you nothing.

Give that woman a cigar!

[Balog]

I find it ironic the amount of detailed psychoanalysis people are doing based on one little video. Projection much folks? It is an interesting view into the people making the arguments.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

so no obligation for a computer? cell phone?  car?  what else is on the ala carte menu?


would a parent be "abusive if he or she taught the concept of ownership by having kids earn their extras?  what about chores? learning tool?  or slavery? why?  assuming some chores are ok how many?  why?

how about curfews?  restrictions on friends?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i think the core trouble is sneaking out.  why is it that kids "owe nothing"?
re they not part of society? albeit parasitic for the most part at that age....   don't they owe it to society to make an effort in school?  to try to learn how to be a part of that society? i've never quite understood the free ride owe nothing mentality maybe someone can explain it. my youngest is eager to be an active part of the family. she agitated to take over from her sister at unloading the dishwasher. do my kids need to be sent to the entitlement camps? are they gonna be societal outcasts because they work and "gasp" take pride in earning the things they have? and in continuing to have them by continuing to earn them?  is this gonna hamstring them as they go through life? have some effect on their grades?  their earning potential? their general quality of life?

[Tuco]

I find it ironic the amount of detailed psychoanalysis people are doing based on one little video. Projection much folks? It is an interesting view into the people making the arguments.

Almost as ironic as the amount of support for rage filled intimidation and vandalism.
Denial much, folks?

think the core trouble is sneaking out.  why is it that kids "owe nothing"?
re they not part of society? albeit parasitic for the most part at that age....   don't they owe it to society to make an effort in school?  to try to learn how to be a part of that society? i've never quite understood the free ride owe nothing mentality maybe someone can explain it.

This I have no argument with.  It was the girl's father, the human train wreck in the video, who failed miserably at teaching his child this.
I'm sure you, Father of Cassandra and Sara, do a very good job at balancing responsibility and appropriate giving.  It's clear in your frequent posts that you care about a strong relationship with your daughters.
The numnuts in the video doesn't get it.  He gave, gave gave and then had a tantrum when she edit failed to worship his generosity.  Did he ever make her proactively work for anything, or just blow his stack when she wouldn't respond in a manner that graced him in his preferred light.

I have an uncle a lot like that guy, a very successful retired engineer with two grown children with a few grandchildren.  
He spends Christmas, Thanksgiving and other holidays alone in his big empty house, content in knowing that he made it clear who the boss was and who deserved the worship.

[red headed stranger]

I find it ironic the amount of detailed psychoanalysis people are doing based on one little video. Projection much folks? It is an interesting view into the people making the arguments.

I think that people have made a lot of assumptions about both the child and the parent.  

What strikes me is the sheer amount of glee many people have at seeing the video. It is an interesting look into how some people view the purpose and nature of disciplining children as well as their perception of their role as a parent.  

[BlueStarLizzard]

i think the core trouble is sneaking out.  why is it that kids "owe nothing"?
re they not part of society? albeit parasitic for the most part at that age....   don't they owe it to society to make an effort in school?  to try to learn how to be a part of that society? i've never quite understood the free ride owe nothing mentality maybe someone can explain it. my youngest is eager to be an active part of the family. she agitated to take over from her sister at unloading the dishwasher. do my kids need to be sent to the entitlement camps? are they gonna be societal outcasts because they work and "gasp" take pride in earning the things they have? and in continuing to have them by continuing to earn them?  is this gonna hamstring them as they go through life? have some effect on their grades?  their earning potential? their general quality of life?

It is to their benifit to learn those things. Your daughter wants to help out to receive praise, and to be apart of the family group. She doesn't owe you or society to do those things.

You teach kids to WANT to do these things, because by doing so they can have nice things.

No, children owe no one anything. In fact, no one owes anyone for their exsistance.

But to exsist and survive we must interact and work. Thus, the education.

Society doesn't exist because people are born indebted to one another. It exists because it's the form of survival that works best for humans, and we are selfish.

[Balog]

Some followup comments from the dad. http://twentytwowords.com/2012/02/10/follow-up-from-the-dad-who-shot-his-daughters-computer/

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

so no obligation for a computer? cell phone?  car?  what else is on the ala carte menu?


would a parent be "abusive if he or she taught the concept of ownership by having kids earn their extras?  what about chores? learning tool?  or slavery? why?  assuming some chores are ok how many?  why?

how about curfews?  restrictions on friends?


trying again

[Tuco]

While typing my edit to post#81, my 10 year old daughter came in and asked "Mom made a pot of coffee, would you like a cup?"
"Yes," I replied, "That's above and beyond the call of duty.  Thank You, sweetheart"
Just this second she brought it in and hugged me.

I realize I have 3 more years, maximum, and all this will go to hell in a hand-basket.  
I'm ready for that.  I accept that.  I may have to deny computer privileges or take away car keys.  
I'm ready for that reality.  

But I'm not going to look for worldwide approval for my discipline, nor will I shame my daughter(s) into believing they are wrong or defective because they mess up or say something publicly that I find embarrassing.

[BlueStarLizzard]

so no obligation for a computer? cell phone?  car?  what else is on the ala carte menu?


would a parent be "abusive if he or she taught the concept of ownership by having kids earn their extras?  what about chores? learning tool?  or slavery? why?  assuming some chores are ok how many?  why?

how about curfews?  restrictions on friends?


trying again

And I am still not going to play the CSD is being incredabley obtuse game (which is incredabley annoying)

Be objective, analytical and deduce my answer for yourself. (make a point of remembering that all those things provide valueble learning experiances, some of which are the hard lessons one has to learn without daddy holding your hand and telling you the "right" answer)

[roo_ster]

"Every generation, Western civilization is invaded by barbarians; we call them 'children.'"
----Hannah Arendt

I lost you there. See if you can figure out why.

Because you link to youthrights.org un-ironically?

...You are obligated to provide certain things for your children. They are not obligated to you.

...You made them, then they are YOUR responcibility. They didn't have a say in their exsistence, they owe you nothing.

Maybe if you used the term "infant" instead of "children," you might have a point. 

But I guess that IS the point.

i think the core trouble is sneaking out.  why is it that kids "owe nothing"?

Yep, trouble it is and bound for disappointment when reality does not conform to their expectations.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

kids are pretty smart.  my 4 year old popped out with "i'm not your servant!" to which i replied "you're right. from now on you take care of you i take care of me" took about 2 hours before she saw the light and wanted to renegotiate our arrangement

[Jamie B]

Some followup comments from the dad. http://twentytwowords.com/2012/02/10/follow-up-from-the-dad-who-shot-his-daughters-computer/

What a bunch of *expletive deleted*it that was.

He acted like a 4 year old publicly, embarrassed his daughter in front of the internet world, and they were bonding while reading the comments? Please!

Just goes to show you - you need a license to drive, hunt, and fish, but any idiot can have children.

Sheesh!

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

for me the litmus test is to ask myself if what i'm about to do is to really help the kid or for my ego.  and not to act when angry preferably not even speak beyond a short banishment decree

[erictank]

What a bunch of *expletive deleted*it that was.

He acted like a 4 year old publicly, embarrassed his daughter in front of the internet world, and they were bonding while reading the comments? Please!

Just goes to show you - you need a license to drive, hunt, and fish, but any idiot can have children.

Sheesh!

Asking us to feel sorry for the daughter being "embarassed in front of the Internet world" when she did the same sort of public shaming aimed at her parents - though she locked it down from them in an attempt to hide her violation of the rules which she'd done before and earned a 3-month grounding as a result - is bound to end with you being disappointed.  Not Dad's fault he got a somewhat broader audience, for both her initial post and his own response. She chose to go public with her violation of a pretty reasonable rule set down by her father, attempted to HIDE said violation from him while allowing everyone else to see it, and got busted again for said repeat violation because she RELIES ON HER DAD FOR COMPUTER CARE  . She earned a pretty severe punishment, and his going public with that punishment is sauce for the goose.

Shooting the computer, that I'll agree was over the top.  The rest of it?  Not so much.  YMM, and apparently does, V.

The updates I've seen seem to indicate she's taking things pretty well, given the apparent immaturity indicated by the initial not-so-well-hidden rant. Good for her. Kudos also to Dad, who seems to think that the public's seen about enough of this.

[red headed stranger]

"But, she did it first" is not a valid excuse for a reasonable adult. 

[BlueStarLizzard]

"Every generation, Western civilization is invaded by barbarians; we call them 'children.'"
----Hannah Arendt

Because you link to youthrights.org un-ironically?

Maybe if you used the term "infant" instead of "children," you might have a point. 

But I guess that IS the point.

Yep, trouble it is and bound for disappointment when reality does not conform to their expectations.

You people are either too literal or not literal enough.

Trying again.

Children are not indebted to their parents for their life or their raising.

You made them, you raise them, they are not obligated to pay you back (be it emotionally or finacially) for that.

And I think it is wrong to tell them so. If they choose to do so, it's because they want to. But it's up to them.

I never said you have to give them cool/nice things. You only have to meet the most basic obligations. I would hope you would do more, but that's up to you. I also don't think you should give them any damn cool/nice thing they like, either.

The daughter had some opinions about her parents. She expressed them. Regardless of there legitmacy, she had a right to do both (yes, children have rights) and he, as a person, had the right to retalate.
But his retaliation was not what I would consider to be good parenting, because he tromped all over his childs rights, which only teaches her that she doesn't have any.

You accuse me of infantilising, yet you support this dad for doing that very thing to his daughter?

[dogmush]

Was reading some of the links and came across this:

HOW HANNAH GOT CAUGHT
HOW SHE GOT CAUGHT: The Dog Did It.. no, really.

I finally came out and told her this today, partly because it was too funny NOT to share.

When my daughter made her post, she used Facebook's privacy settings to block "Family" and "Church" friend's lists. All her other friends could see it. We, of course could not.

One of our dogs is always getting in photos and therefore has her own Facebook pa...ge. It's just a cute dumb thing we did for fun. Well, the dog's profile is rarely used except when funny pictures of her are posted. Since that's not too often, and she has very few friends on Facebook, her wall is kind of bare, with relatively few posts showing up on it.

The other night we gave the dog a bath and there was a funny photo we uploaded to Facebook and tagged her in. I logged in as the dog the next morning to comment on the photo. However when I logged into the dog's profile, my daughter had forgotten to add her to the "family" list.... so our family dog's profile showed her post right there on the front page.

It wasn't any parent-hacking, computer spying, or monitoring of any kind.. the dog actually ratted her out completely by accident. She hasn't petted that dog all day today...

I will say this. As an Army brat, when I mouthed off about my dad, I damn well kept good OPSEC.  I'll bet that this will be the most lasting lesion she learns:  Double check your privacy settings!

[TommyGunn]

Was reading some of the links and came across this:


I will say this. As an Army brat, when I mouthed off about my dad, I damn well kept good OPSEC.  I'll bet that this will be the most lasting lesion she learns:  Double check your privacy settings!

She may need medical attention before this is over ..... 


(OK I'M SORRY, SOMEONE HAD TO SAY IT)

[dogmush]

Crap.  Spell check doesn't work if it's just the wrong word.  I'm leaving that one though, because it's funny.

[MicroBalrog]

so no obligation for a computer? cell phone?  car?  what else is on the ala carte men

Ratger irrelevant here.

Once you choose to give someone a gift -and by their nature gifts are things you do not HAVE to give - it is no longer yours.

[Tuco]

Kudos also to Dad, who seems to think that the public's seen about enough of this.

Oooops!
 
I hope he's self employed.  The internet never forgets.