Author Topic: Honduras shrugged  (Read 3223 times)

Balog

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Honduras shrugged
« on: February 23, 2012, 11:29:56 AM »
Fascinating article on two new libertarian (well, so described. One actually sounds more hippie/commune than Ayn Rand) enclaves in Honduras. Be very interesting to see how these develop.

http://www.economist.com/node/21541391
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2012, 12:21:26 AM »
I wish them the best of luck. They're gonna need it.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

MicroBalrog

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2012, 01:38:10 AM »
It's Patri Friedman.

I take everything he does with a grain of salt.

Remember the Seasteading INstitute, promising a 'prototype seastead by 2010'?

I fail to be excited by this Free Cities thing. At best, it's going to give the inhabitants some freedom from Honduras' economic regulations. This is cool, but to get to personal freedom you need full sovereignty so you can get your own criminal law (and thus your own gun laws, drug laws, etc.).
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

longeyes

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2012, 03:51:56 PM »
A thousand points of rebellion against The Machine.

"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Jamie B

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2012, 05:32:58 PM »
It's Patri Friedman.

I take everything he does with a grain of salt.

Remember the Seasteading INstitute, promising a 'prototype seastead by 2010'?

Are these the ones promoting the Freedom Ship 4 or 5 years ago?
Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher

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230RN

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2012, 05:37:00 PM »
Just off the top of my head, the way I see it, the main fault in almost kind of utopianism is it has to be pretty big to survive. And as soon as it gets pretty big, you get some bad apples in it.  And as soon as you get some bad apples in it, you've gotta make laws against the bad apple-ness.

Well, you know, just as an example, the FDA was formed to protect us collectively against unscrupulous "bad apple" distributors of meat, milk, veggies, etc.  Just as an example.

Yeah, some laws are specious, but a lot of licensing laws are borne of things like that --a proper reaction to "bad-appleness."

This is also not to say that everything is just hunky-dory with today's burden of over-regulation, but the way to handle this is to de-elect the bounders through normal processes.

Or by limiting all legislative sessions to 2 days a year and knock off all the perks that were voted in by the aforesaid bounders themselves.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 05:45:26 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

longeyes

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2012, 12:14:08 PM »
No, Big is the problem.  It can only work Small.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

230RN

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 09:00:57 AM »
^ That's what I was basically saying.  When it gets too big, it'll work, but by then you've necessarily lost the utopian ideals.
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

Ron

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2012, 09:12:12 AM »
If it gets too big they should break it up into smaller semi autonomous states that together will form a confederation united under certain unalienable principles.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2012, 09:41:27 AM »
If it gets too big they should break it up into smaller semi autonomous states that together will form a confederation united under certain unalienable principles.

Been tried.  Became socialist country under centerally run government.  [tinfoil]
JD

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2012, 02:01:04 PM »
Been tried.  Became socialist country under centerally run government.  [tinfoil]

No, no it didn't.

Worked pretty fine from where I sit.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2012, 07:36:19 PM »
No, no it didn't.

Worked pretty fine from where I sit.

 The filter of distance?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Balog

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 07:44:09 PM »
The filter of distance?

More likely comparing it to Israel... America certainly isn't what it was or could be, but it's still better than most other places.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2012, 10:48:29 PM »
And in some ways better than it used to be.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Fly320s

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2012, 12:26:27 AM »
If it gets too big they should break it up into smaller semi autonomous states that together will form a confederation united under certain unalienable principles.

I am your King and I order you to be quiet!
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Balog

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Re: Honduras shrugged
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2012, 11:33:01 AM »
If it gets too big they should break it up into smaller semi autonomous states that together will form a confederation united under certain unalienable principles.

To be fair, the Articles of Confederation weren't a success which is what led to the current Constitution with it's stronger fed.gov. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.