Author Topic: Sad.  (Read 9819 times)

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Sad.
« on: March 02, 2012, 12:37:26 PM »
Interesting article. It would be funny if it wasn't so true.

http://opinion.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=34606&content=67497023&pageNum=-1
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

Abraham Lincoln


With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

roo_ster

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2012, 12:53:47 PM »
Interesting article. It would be funny if it wasn't so true.

http://opinion.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=34606&content=67497023&pageNum=-1

They all ought to be strung up from the nearest tree as honorless oath-breakers.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Blakenzy

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2012, 12:54:08 PM »
So it has gotten to a point where there are so much police that they are tripping over each other all the while failing adhere themselves to the Law. I think that qualifies as a Police State... or a Three Stooges episode.

"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives. A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy or perhaps both"

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2012, 03:30:28 PM »
"the judge" again?
what crime was committed by the new york cops again?  surely a noted jurist like him coulda told us?
no?  theres a reason

It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2012, 03:51:04 PM »
And the apologies begin.
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

Abraham Lincoln


With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2012, 04:24:45 PM »
"the judge" again?
what crime was committed by the new york cops again?  surely a noted jurist like him coulda told us?
no?  theres a reason

Did you read the article?
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Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2012, 04:34:56 PM »
Did you read the article?

Apologize first. It's SOP.
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

Abraham Lincoln


With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2012, 05:10:10 PM »
Did you read the article?

yea  i did  and a few others. 
what crime was committed? looking at publicly posted stuff?  showing up at public events?


heres a hint
real lawyers are not as impressed with the judge as those who think because they like what he says hes a genius

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/284393/andrew-napolitano-s-mistake-andrew-c-mccarthy

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1349347/posts


alex jones in a black robe  was a judge a short time   and never made it past middle level jersey state court
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2012, 05:19:58 PM »
don't we have a thread where the nypd's actions were discussed?  or was it another forum?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MicroBalrog

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2012, 06:10:31 PM »
Just whose lives were saved, here?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

roo_ster

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2012, 06:17:08 PM »
Just whose lives phony-baloney make-work jobs were saved, here?

HTH.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MicroBalrog

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2012, 06:29:57 PM »
And this has bearing on this story how?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

TommyGunn

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2012, 07:53:43 PM »
yea  i did  and a few others. 
what crime was committed? looking at publicly posted stuff?  showing up at public events?


heres a hint
real lawyers are not as impressed with the judge as those who think because they like what he says hes a genius

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/284393/andrew-napolitano-s-mistake-andrew-c-mccarthy

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1349347/posts


alex jones in a black robe  was a judge a short time   and never made it past middle level jersey state court

Oh SHOCKING ... Judge Napalitano has people who disagree with him.  I hear lawyers debating other lawyers all the time.  Do you really think all lawyers always agree with each other? 
He's not the only legal expert on Fox, O'Reilly has a couple of the pretty lady lawyers on and they hardly ever agree with each other.  It does get fun, however, when they 'splain to Wild Bill why HE is wrong on some point  in a discussion of a legal case.  [popcorn] [popcorn] 
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Perd Hapley

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2012, 09:17:03 PM »
yea  i did  and a few others.  

Then you saw that he alleged some pretty serious civil rights violations, so your question doesn't make any sense.


Sorry, I don't know anything about Napolitono. He's just a name to me. I didn't know he wrote the article.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 09:22:24 PM by fistful »
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2012, 09:30:05 PM »
Then you saw that he alleged some pretty serious civil rights violations, so your question doesn't make any sense.


Sorry, I don't know anything about Napolitono. He's just a name to me. I didn't know he wrote the article.

he made his trademark broad allegations.

the question is what law does he or you allege was broken.
hes got books to sell to the fathful
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

freakazoid

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2012, 09:46:00 PM »
he made his trademark broad allegations.

the question is what law does he or you allege was broken.
hes got books to sell to the fathful

Ha! When I first read that on my tiny phone screen I thought it said fitful fistful. :lol:

Edit - Stupid autocorrect. :mad:
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 10:52:37 PM by freakazoid »
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2012, 09:50:47 PM »
fitful works too.

he says what they wanna believe so hes a genius and it must be true
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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RevDisk

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2012, 10:38:20 PM »
he made his trademark broad allegations.

the question is what law does he or you allege was broken.
hes got books to sell to the fathful

Allegedly, illegal wiretapping and probably NJ stalking laws. If the CIA dude was there, there is a large number of rules and laws broken.  CIA domestic surveillance is illegal, and a really really bad idea.  Why any cop would be dumb enough to involve them is beyond my guess.

Could be violating NJ gun laws too.   :laugh:

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2012, 10:43:32 PM »
One can state laws are violated even if no court ever files charges.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2012, 10:53:36 PM »
Quote
real lawyers are not as impressed with the judge as those who think because they like what he says hes a genius

Hey, Obama is a real lawyer, I'll bet he disagrees with Napolitano as well =D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2012, 11:03:51 PM »
It tickles me pink that "see something, say something" got the FBI and CIA arrested.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2012, 11:38:59 PM »
he made his trademark broad allegations.

the question is what law does he or you allege was broken.
hes got books to sell to the fathful


Did I say I agree with him?  ???  Here, I'll put the relevant portions in bold for you.

Quote
Should the FBI agents and the local cops arrest the NYPD and the CIA agent for violating the U.S. and New Jersey constitutions, both of which prohibit searches and seizures without search warrants, and for violating federal and New Jersey laws against wiretapping and surveillance?

Should the NYPD and the CIA agent arrest the FBI agents and the local cops for breaking and entering and obstructing a governmental function without a search warrant?

Did the FBI and the local cops even have a search warrant? Was the NYPD/CIA surveillance a lawful governmental function?

No one at the scene of this unique encounter was arrested. In return for not becoming a defendant, everyone agreed not to become a complainant.

The FBI and the New Brunswick police went home, and the NYPD cops and their CIA mentor went back to their surveillance -- even though everyone in that office had sworn the same oath to uphold the U.S. Constitution and the laws written pursuant to it.

Among those laws are the state statutes that limit the authority and jurisdiction of local cops to the municipality that employs them, and the federal statutes that limit the legal ability of CIA agents to steal secrets only from foreigners outside the United States.

Stated differently, the NYPD has no authority or jurisdiction to engage in surveillance in New Jersey, and the CIA has no authority or jurisdiction to engage in surveillance in the U.S.

How much more specific do you expect him to be in a piece of mainstream opinion journalism? Any more specific, and he'd have to bill all the relevant agencies for his legal counsel.  :facepalm:
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Sad.
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2012, 10:14:52 AM »
i highlighted all the manure


On June 2, 2009, a janitor in an office building in New Brunswick, N.J., noticed what he thought was terrorist-related literature and sophisticated surveillance equipment in an office he had been assigned to clean.

He told his boss, who called the local police, who notified the FBI.

Later in the day, the FBI and the New Brunswick police broke into the office and discovered five men busily operating the equipment. Four of the men were officers from the New York City Police Department, and the fifth was a CIA agent.

The conundrum faced by all of these public servants soon became apparent. Who should arrest whom?

Should the FBI agents and the local cops arrest the NYPD and the CIA agent for violating the U.S. and New Jersey constitutions, both of which prohibit searches and seizures without search warrants, and for violating federal and New Jersey laws against wiretapping and surveillance?

Should the NYPD and the CIA agent arrest the FBI agents and the local cops for breaking and entering and obstructing a governmental function without a search warrant?

Did the FBI and the local cops even have a search warrant? Was the NYPD/CIA surveillance a lawful governmental function?

No one at the scene of this unique encounter was arrested. In return for not becoming a defendant, everyone agreed not to become a complainant.

The FBI and the New Brunswick police went home, and the NYPD cops and their CIA mentor went back to their surveillance -- even though everyone in that office had sworn the same oath to uphold the U.S. Constitution and the laws written pursuant to it.

Among those laws are the state statutes that limit the authority and jurisdiction of local cops to the municipality that employs them, and the federal statutes that limit the legal ability of CIA agents to steal secrets only from foreigners outside the United States.

Stated differently, the NYPD has no authority or jurisdiction to engage in surveillance in New Jersey, and the CIA has no authority or jurisdiction to engage in surveillance in the U.S.

Nevertheless, we now know from the candid admissions last week of NYPD Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly that his department has been spying without search warrants on Muslim groups in New Jersey and elsewhere for 10 years.

Former New Jersey governor and current state Sen. Richard Codey recalls authorizing the NYPD -- and not the CIA -- to inspect railroads and ferries that travel back and forth between New Jersey and New York in 2005.

He says he never authorized surveillance.

No public official in New Jersey has come forward to acknowledge awareness of all this, and Mr. Kelly says the spying will continue. But he needs a search warrant.

Can the police spy on us? Only if they have probable cause to believe criminal behavior is taking place and a search warrant signed by a judge.

Short of probable cause about the very persons on whom they are spying, not about a group to which those persons belong by birth or by choice, the police may not lawfully spy, and judges will not sign search warrants without specific probable cause about specific persons.

The specificity is required by the language of the Fourth Amendment. That language also guarantees that quintessentially American right -- the right to be left alone -- by establishing articulable suspicion as the linchpin of all police pursuit of anyone for anything, and probable cause as the trigger for search warrants.

Can the police choose a target upon whom to spy based on the target's religion?

No.

The courts have been clear that under no circumstances may religion lawfully be the sole or even the principal basis for surveillance. That's how World War II got started: German police targeted Jews because they were Jews, and for no legitimate law enforcement purpose and without probable cause.

Was the New Brunswick operation criminal? Yes, it was.

It's not too late to charge the NYPD officers or the CIA agent in state or federal court for spying.

It's also not too late to charge the FBI agents and the New Brunswick cops in state or federal court for failing to obtain a search warrant (if they didn't have one), and for malfeasance in office by not arresting the spies.

The sacrifice of liberty for safety is illusory. The liberty lost does not return. The safety gained is not real.

Who in New Jersey voluntarily gave up his liberty?

Who can feel safe or free with government agents secretly and unlawfully monitoring them?

What is the reliability and vitality of constitutional guarantees if those in whose hands we repose them actively violate them?

What religious group might law enforcement target next?

How dangerous to personal freedom is a cabal of law enforcement when it looks the other way to avoid prosecuting its own?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I