Author Topic: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh  (Read 12268 times)

TommyGunn

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2012, 12:42:08 PM »
I'm quite the Limbaugh fan, actually.


Gun owners demanded that he be fired, and he was. And we were very happy about it. I didn't write any letters or emails, myself, but I still chuckle at the spanking he got from "us." 


You ought to understand the difference between "silencing" someone, and not amplifying them. You also ought to understand the difference between people refusing to do business with someone, versus forcing other people to do things. Calling Limbaugh's sponsors and giving them an earful is not something I would ever do, but it isn't a violation of anyone's rights, either.
 


I didn't say it "violated anyone's rights" I just think it's a wrong thing to do.  As for Zumbo there's nothing I can do about history.  I do "sort of" recall the brouhaha over Zumbo but I didn't participate in it in any way, one way or another.  I was neither happy or sad.   Glad you found some enjoyment in his being fired, though. 
Whatever floats your boat. 
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Perd Hapley

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2012, 12:55:02 PM »
I didn't say it "violated anyone's rights" I just think it's a wrong thing to do.    

OK.

So, you're not happy that Zumbo was fired? Why?

See, Zumbo had a job(jobs, really, endorsement deals, I think) where a lot of the money he made for his employers was coming from gun folks. When he made remarks prejudicial to their rights, they said they wouldn't tolerate any more of their money being used to pay for it. And the people taking their money honored their wishes. How is that a bad thing? It's a good thing; something to be happy about.

What if we put so much shame on the Violence Policy Center's contributors that they couldn't afford to keep the doors open, and Josh Sugarman had to get a real job. Would you think that was wrong, too?

Oh, and the Walmart thing isn't moot. It's called a hypothetical.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 01:02:04 PM by fistful »
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Jamie B

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2012, 02:10:44 PM »
 [popcorn]
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grampster

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2012, 02:14:42 PM »
I don't know why all of you knuckleheads don't understand.  We need laws to restrict every move, every word, every desire, every thought, up to and including the clothing that is worn by liberals and statist and leftist.

Rightwingedness duber alles!!!! :cool: :police:
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TommyGunn

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2012, 07:51:05 PM »
OK.

So, you're not happy that Zumbo was fired? Why?

See, Zumbo had a job(jobs, really, endorsement deals, I think) where a lot of the money he made for his employers was coming from gun folks. When he made remarks prejudicial to their rights, they said they wouldn't tolerate any more of their money being used to pay for it. And the people taking their money honored their wishes. How is that a bad thing? It's a good thing; something to be happy about.

What if we put so much shame on the Violence Policy Center's contributors that they couldn't afford to keep the doors open, and Josh Sugarman had to get a real job. Would you think that was wrong, too?

Oh, and the Walmart thing isn't moot. It's called a hypothetical.
The Wal Mart thing isn't theoretical either -- they are selling ARs in some of their stores.  That is neither moot or theoretical, it just isn't consistant, since other WalMarts (like MINE!  :mad: ) are NOT carrying them!
From what I recall Zumbo said something I disagree with and paid a price.  It's too late to undo that now.

Fistful, a neighbor and good friend of my mother's ran a sporting goods store for over 50 years with her husband.  When he did she kept on running it.  At one point my mother and I were discussing guns and such (don't recall the whole conversation) and it came up that she (the gun store owner lady) doesn't carry or sell "assault rifles."
That did sort of bother me because I was, and am, very pro 2A.  But it didn't stop me from being good friends with her, as I was with her husband when he was alive. 
Later on after that conversation I recall stopping in her store (the branch in Decatur where I live) and noticed an M-1 carbine near a counter .... so I have to wonder how strick her edict about "assault rifles" really was, though I never did see any AR-15s there.  I did see a number of Brownings and other good stuff.
Unfortunatly, the lady to whom I am refering is now retired and one branch of her store has shut down and the other is .... well, let's say it's seen "better days."
You can't always fight every fight, all the time, with everyone you know or are acquinted with.  Zumbo stuck his foot in his mouth and paid a price.  My mother's friend was a friend and I did not think it my place to get into a argument or debate with her.  It was her store and in the end she could just point out that very fact and that would be that.


I don't know why all of you knuckleheads don't understand.  We need laws to restrict every move, every word, every desire, every thought, up to and including the clothing that is worn by liberals and statist and leftist.

Rightwingedness duber alles!!!! :cool: :police:

FINALLY!  Someone with a SOLUTION!!!!! :laugh:  BTW, what does "duber" mean? 
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Perd Hapley

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2012, 08:59:09 PM »
The Wal Mart thing isn't theoretical either -- they are selling ARs in some of their stores.  That is neither moot or theoretical, it just isn't consistant, since other WalMarts (like MINE!  :mad: ) are NOT carrying them!
From what I recall Zumbo said something I disagree with and paid a price.  It's too late to undo that now.

"Undoing" Zumbo is what's moot, because no one is asking you to undo it. I was just asking about your opinion on it.

On the Walmart/ARs thing. I was giving you a hypothetical in which Walmart doesn't sell ARs and some people decided to give them trouble for it.

Both of the above seemed very clear to me; but apparently not. I don't really care about either one anymore. Never mind.

Quote
Fistful, a neighbor and good friend of my mother's ran a sporting goods store for over 50 years with her husband.  When he did she kept on running it.  At one point my mother and I were discussing guns and such (don't recall the whole conversation) and it came up that she (the gun store owner lady) doesn't carry or sell "assault rifles."
That did sort of bother me because I was, and am, very pro 2A.  But it didn't stop me from being good friends with her, as I was with her husband when he was alive. 
Later on after that conversation I recall stopping in her store (the branch in Decatur where I live) and noticed an M-1 carbine near a counter .... so I have to wonder how strick her edict about "assault rifles" really was, though I never did see any AR-15s there.  I did see a number of Brownings and other good stuff.
Unfortunatly, the lady to whom I am refering is now retired and one branch of her store has shut down and the other is .... well, let's say it's seen "better days."
You can't always fight every fight, all the time, with everyone you know or are acquinted with.  Zumbo stuck his foot in his mouth and paid a price.  My mother's friend was a friend and I did not think it my place to get into a argument or debate with her.  It was her store and in the end she could just point out that very fact and that would be that.

Now you're just dodging. You know very well that the question was the moral rectitude of boycotting, not whether you could "fight every fight."


That's three instances where you obfuscate the point, instead of giving a good explanation for your point of view. Seems like a pattern.  =|
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grampster

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2012, 09:41:18 PM »
 
FINALLY!  Someone with a SOLUTION!!!!! :laugh:  BTW, what does "duber" mean? 
[/quote]

Yooper for uber. :lol:
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TommyGunn

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2012, 11:39:09 PM »
"Undoing" Zumbo is what's moot, because no one is asking you to undo it. I was just asking about your opinion on it.

On the Walmart/ARs thing. I was giving you a hypothetical in which Walmart doesn't sell ARs and some people decided to give them trouble for it.

Both of the above seemed very clear to me; but apparently not. I don't really care about either one anymore. Never mind.

Sorry if pointing out some Wal Marts carry ARs bothers you.  I was just pointing out that they do.  Some gunstores don't carry Colt handguns as many around here think they're overpriced.  

Now you're just dodging. You know very well that the question was the moral rectitude of boycotting, not whether you could "fight every fight."


That's three instances where you obfuscate the point, instead of giving a good explanation for your point of view. Seems like a pattern.  =|

I really think I've explained my opinion on boycotting quit sufficiently.  If you don't understand it then it's your problem.  I'm not going to keep 'splainin' myself to someone who seems unable to grasp remarkably simple concepts.  
I'm not trying to "obfuscate" any of your points.  I really don't know what the  ***** you expect of me regarding the Zumbo matter.   Do you really think I should pick a fight with a near 80 year old lady about whther or not her store should have carried ARs?  No thanks.  


I tried to point out O'Reilly boycotted Pepsi as a personal protest.  That's fine.  Others were trying to boycott Limbaugh in order to suppress free speech, that's bad.  

In an essay title "Self Reliance," Ralph Waldo Emerson pointed out "a foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen philosophers and divines."

I suppose I could point out, if you really need to have it pointed out, that a lot depends upon the ends the boycotters' intend.  If you don't get that then maybe you can start quoting Hobgoblin.



....or little minds.  >:D
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Regolith

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2012, 11:52:44 PM »
Sorry if pointing out some Wal Marts carry ARs bothers you.  I was just pointing out that they do.  Some gunstores don't carry Colt handguns as many around here think they're overpriced.  

I really think I've explained my opinion on boycotting quit sufficiently.  If you don't understand it then it's your problem.  I'm not going to keep 'splainin' myself to someone who seems unable to grasp remarkably simple concepts.  
I'm not trying to "obfuscate" any of your points.  I really don't know what the  ***** you expect of me regarding the Zumbo matter.   Do you really think I should pick a fight with a near 80 year old lady about whther or not her store should have carried ARs?  No thanks.  


I tried to point out O'Reilly boycotted Pepsi as a personal protest.  That's fine.  Others were trying to boycott Limbaugh in order to suppress free speech, that's bad.  

In an essay title "Self Reliance," Ralph Waldo Emerson pointed out "a foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen philosophers and divines."

I suppose I could point out, if you really need to have it pointed out, that a lot depends upon the ends the boycotters' intend.  If you don't get that then maybe you can start quoting Hobgoblin.



....or little minds.  >:D


The only consistency I can wring out of your posts is that boycotts and market actions you agree with are good, and boycotts and market actions that you disagree with are bad.

That's not consistent in any real logical sense. It's simply bias-clouded judgement.
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TommyGunn

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2012, 12:09:37 AM »
The only consistency I can wring out of your posts is that boycotts and market actions you agree with are good, and boycotts and market actions that you disagree with are bad.

That's not consistent in any real logical sense. It's simply bias-clouded judgement.
:facepalm:

What the Sam Hill is so damned hard about understanding a particular action may be justified under some circumstances and not under others?
Bias clouded judgement my *expletive deleted*ss.  You show me someone without bias and I'll show you a damned liar.
Do YOU REALLY THINK IT IS AN APPROPRIATE USE OF BOYCOTTS TO SUPPRESS FREE SPEECH?

Keep in mind I am NOT asking you if it's constitutional or not.


OTOH if some entity were doing something that was bad, might not a boycott be considered a possible weapon against them?  Let's say the Sam Hill Mining Co. is allowing runoff from its operations to enter a lake, which is used to provide drinking water for a nearby town, and some of the chemicals were dangerous. 
If the Sam Hill Co. wouldn't rectify the matter by itself, would not a boycott be justified?

Or is it improper to consider the ends to which the boycott is used?
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Perd Hapley

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2012, 12:41:29 AM »
Do YOU REALLY THINK IT IS AN APPROPRIATE USE OF BOYCOTTS TO SUPPRESS FREE SPEECH?

The question does not compute. A boycott cannot suppress free speech, only protest it. Suppressing Limbaugh would mean putting your hand over his mouth, or bombing the stations that try to carry him. Or legislation that keeps him off the air. A boycott doesn't do anything like that. It just declines any association with Limbaugh, and asks others to do the same.


It was never my desire for you to boycott this elderly lady of your acquaintance. I don't recall telling you to boycott anyone.


Oh, heck, I'm gonna try one more time:

Suppose for a moment that Walmart completely suspended any further sales of AR rifles. No, forget that, let's say that they quit selling guns and ammunition completely. That's called a hypothetical, because it hasn't happened, but I'm asking you to imagine that it had.

If that did happen, would it offend you if a  bunch of gunnies got together to announce a boycott of Walmart until they brought the guns back?
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TommyGunn

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2012, 12:48:43 AM »
Fistful, what do you think the lefties were trying to do to Limbaugh through their attempt at using boycotts?
The question I posed computes just fine.

When ****Wal Mart actually does stop selling guns and the gunnies call for a boycott, I will decide at that point what I think of it based on the context of why Wal Mart took its decision.   
Hypthetical questions usually suck.

And it's late and I'm ****tired of this thread, so good bye and good luck. >:D
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

RoadKingLarry

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2012, 01:19:47 AM »

What if they were? AR owners got Jim Zumbo fired. Did you have a problem with that? What if AR owners boycott Walmart for not selling ARs. Would that be bad?


Be kinda dumb to boycott Wally world for not selling ARs since they in fact do.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2012, 01:45:04 AM »
Fistful, what do you think the lefties were trying to do to Limbaugh through their attempt at using boycotts?

They...were...trying...to...get...people...to...stop...paying...for...his...radio...show.


Be kinda dumb to boycott Wally world for not selling ARs since they in fact do.

 :laugh:
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TommyGunn

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2012, 10:50:09 AM »
They...were...trying...to...get...people...to...stop...paying...for...his...radio...show.


Yay....You.....Finally......Got......IT! [popcorn]
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Perd Hapley

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2012, 11:22:03 AM »
And, to you, that's suppressing free speech? I thought it was called "the free market."
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erictank

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2012, 11:28:44 AM »
And, to you, that's suppressing free speech? I thought it was called "the free market."

Yup. The free-market bit, not the suppressing of free speech.

Limbaugh can continue to bloviate all he likes. If his sponsors don't like what he's saying, or the complaints of people who hear Limbaugh's windbaggery and find it genuinely offensive (as opposed to not liking him because he's right-wing rather than left-) become worrisome to them, then they're free to stop paying for him to do so. He's welcome to pick up his own tab, or ask his listeners to pay for the show.  Freedom of speech is still intact.

TommyGunn

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2012, 11:36:32 AM »
And, to you, that's suppressing free speech? I thought it was called "the free market."
:facepalm:  Just  :facepalm:

MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Regolith

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2012, 10:22:37 PM »
:facepalm:  Just  :facepalm:



It's not our fault you can't understand simple concepts.

It's a free market because people are free to buy or not to buy something for any particular reason they want. Whether they decide not to buy because they think the product is crap or because they dislike with who the company does business with. That includes forming a boycott because you don't like that some company sponsors a certain talk show host.

So yeah, free market.

Edit: More specifically, Rush doesn't have a RIGHT to his sponsors money, nor does he have a RIGHT to force others to let him have a radio show. If he can get the companies to like him and give him money that he then uses to pay for his radio show, then the first amendment protects him from prosecution from the government for what he says, but he cannot force the radio channel nor his advertisers to carry him. If they decide he's a liability rather than an asset, they are free to terminate their contracts with him. And the customers of the companies that sponsor Rush have the right to say that the sponsorship deals are unacceptable for whatever reason, and thus convince the companies that he is a liability.

The first amendment only protects Rush from the government. It does not allow him to extort money and airtime from other individuals or companies, and the right to free association means that other people have the right to decide whether or not they're going to continue to give him money and airtime or not.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 10:28:38 PM by Regolith »
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

TommyGunn

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2012, 12:41:08 AM »
Regolith I am
NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST AMENDMENT!!!!!

Do you get it?

Quote from: Regolith
It's not our fault you can't understand simple concepts.

It's obvious YOU don't understand "simple concepts" since you seem to think I am trying to make a first amendment case out of this.  

Quote from: TommyGunn,
(on March 26, 2012, 11:09:37 PM) What the Sam Hill is so damned hard about understanding a particular action may be justified under some circumstances and not under others?
Bias clouded judgement my *expletive deleted*ss.  You show me someone without bias and I'll show you a damned liar.
Do YOU REALLY THINK IT IS AN APPROPRIATE USE OF BOYCOTTS TO SUPPRESS FREE SPEECH?

Keep in mind I am NOT asking you if it's constitutional or not.

See above quote.  Note red glowing part.  Understand red glowing part?
Is part of red glowing part hard for you to understand? ? ? ?  ? ?   ? ? ?[/b] :police: :mad:

Quote from: Regolith
The first amendment only protects Rush from the government. It does not allow him to extort money and airtime from other individuals or companies, and the right to free association means that other people have the right to decide whether or not they're going to continue to give him money and airtime or not.


:facepalm:
Now you're accusing Limbaugh of extortion?  I never claimed he had the right to do that and you're pettifogging the issue with irrelevant accusations.  Then you have the utter gall to claim "It's not our fault you can't understand simple concepts."
You sanctimonious twit.

I have tried real hard to make my point regarding this clear, but it's evident there's people on this thread who don't have the combined good sense God gave a pump handle.   :mad:
So much for that.  
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 12:49:38 AM by TommyGunn »
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Regolith

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2012, 01:18:08 AM »
1. making your text big and bold only makes you more annoying. It doesn't make your point any better (also, neither does calling people "sanctimonious twit"  ;/).

2. I never claimed Rush tried to extort anything. I only stated that he has no positive right, constitutionally, ethically or morally, to his show and his sponsors, and that it was NOT a contradiction of the free market for people to try to get him off the air by pressuring his sponsors, a concept you seem to have a problem with. Thing is, that's how the free market works. That's how you keep companies in line in a market devoid of government interference (aka the "free market"). It's called voting with your wallet.

So, to answer you question, I see absolutely no problem with the boycott. I do not agree with the boycotters, but they have EVERY right to refuse to patronize companies that associate with someone they dislike. If what Rush does continues to serve a market function, he will continue to have his show because sponsors will see more to gain with buying ads than not. If Rush becomes too radioactive, he will lose his show. That's the reality of being in show business, and I'm betting Rush understands that point perfectly.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 01:25:26 AM by Regolith »
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

Perd Hapley

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2012, 01:22:25 AM »
If you're not talking about the first amendment, then quit using the terms "suppress," "suppression," and "free speech." It is your fault that people think you are talking about the first amendment; bad choice of words.

If you want to be taken seriously, quit using big fonts and funny colors. It makes you look stupid. And that's not an insult; it's advice.

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TommyGunn

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2012, 01:42:25 AM »
1. making your text big and bold only makes you more annoying. It doesn't make your point any better (also, neither does calling people "sanctimonious twit"  ;/).

2. I never claimed Rush tried to extort anything. I only stated that he has no positive right, constitutionally, ethically or morally, to his show and his sponsors, and that it was NOT a contradiction of the free market for people to try to get him off the air by pressuring his sponsors, a concept you seem to have a problem with. Thing is, that's how the free market works. That's how you keep companies in line in a market devoid of government interference (aka the "free market"). It's called voting with your wallet.

So, to answer you question, I see absolutely no problem with the boycott. I do not agree with the boycotters, but they have EVERY right to refuse to patronize companies that associate with someone they dislike. If what Rush does continues to serve a market function, he will continue to have his show because sponsors will see more to gain with buying ads than not. If Rush becomes too radioactive, he will lose his show. That's the reality of being in show business, and I'm betting Rush understands that point perfectly.

Regolith, the people are NOT trying to "keep Rush in line," they're trying to suppress the conservative viewpoint.  This isn't about a corporate bad apple. 
You don't seem to get this, do you?
If you don't like being called a "sanctimonious twit,"  then you can cut out the cracks such as; "It's not our fault you can't understand simple concepts."


If you're not talking about the first amendment, then quit using the terms "suppress," "suppression," and "free speech." It is your fault that people think you are talking about the first amendment; bad choice of words.

If you want to be taken seriously, quit using big fonts and funny colors. It makes you look stupid. And that's not an insult; it's advice.

No, Fistful, I will not stop using those terms, because the government is not the only entity capable of trying to suppress people.
It's not my fault other people think I am talking about the first amendment WHEN I HAVE STATED ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION THAT I AM NOT.  Apparantly the lack of comprehension includes you.
You can keep your advice to yourself until you develop the comprehension abilities of a chimpanzee.
And that's not an insult. That's advice.
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Regolith

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2012, 02:08:40 AM »
Regolith, the people are NOT trying to "keep Rush in line," they're trying to suppress the conservative viewpoint.  This isn't about a corporate bad apple. 
You don't seem to get this, do you?

Again, completely and utterly within their rights as consumers, at least in the way they are going about it. 

There is absolutely nothing in your phrasing that changes anything I have said.  You are creating a distinction without a difference.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

TechMan

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Re: It's un-American to silence Limbaugh
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2012, 08:25:58 AM »
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Hawkmoon - Never underestimate another person's capacity for stupidity. Any time you think someone can't possibly be that dumb ... they'll prove you wrong.

Bacon and Eggs - A day's work for a chicken; A lifetime commitment for a pig.
Stupidity will always be its own reward.
Bad decisions make good stories.

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Viking - The problem with the modern world is that there aren't really any predators eating stupid people.