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Author Topic: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?  (Read 95941 times)

longeyes

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #150 on: March 23, 2012, 02:47:36 PM »
Soul-searching indeed.   I suggest Mr Obama begin by talking about the black flash mobs and Major Hasan.

And somebody please tell Sharpton that Zimmerman's not exactly a poster child for White Racism.  Inconvenient, I know, but we all have our challenges.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 02:57:02 PM by longeyes »
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roo_ster

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #151 on: March 23, 2012, 03:08:17 PM »
Quote from: gunsmith on March 23, 2012, 02:23:28 AM
Quote from: LadySmith on March 22, 2012, 09:44:54 PM
Quote from: roo_ster on March 22, 2012, 09:20:24 PM
I bet he already knows not to walk around in thug-wear.
I'm sure some politician will get around to suggesting they ban hoodies.
I believe this was tried in England, or at least suggested a few yrs ago.

Reality: Too unbelievable to be classified fiction.

Quote from: Seenterman on March 23, 2012, 10:04:05 AM
Well at what point does following become a chase?

The fact that you (and I, and others) are asking that question WRT this incident means we hve not enough facts to make an informed determination.

Quote from: agricola on March 23, 2012, 11:47:42 AM
TBF I think the worst thing about this is that it seems that it took a scandal in order to have this lads death investigated appropriately, its allowed various people to use this for their own ends (the daft demands for this law to be repealed for instance, even though from what Zimmerman apparently did and how the law has been described over here its hard to see how he could ever claim a defence under it) and will probably mean that the truth of what happened will end up being drowned out by all the shouting.

If "TBF" is supposed to mean "To Be Fair," you are not.  Every new article seems to bring forth one new tidbit that muddies the water for the "Lynch the Spic Shooter" crowd.  Lacerations requiring stitches on the back of Zimmerman's head, grass stains on the back of his shirt, witnesses who got an eyeball on parts of the mess, etc. etc.

Thing is, the local LEOs say they already performed an investigation and didn't find reason to arrest Zimmerman.  Also, after it blew up, the local LEOs opened their books for the state and will now do so for the federales.  The local LEOs make noise like they got nothing to hide, rather than circling the wagons like some LEO agencies we have seen do in the past.  Once again, we have not the data to say for sure an "appropriate investigation" was performed, but just because Al Sharpton says there has not been is not enough for a reasonable man.

Could there have been a slipshod investigation before?  Sure, but what is the evidence that points that way?  That Zimmerman has not been arrested.  Given that we have not enough data to determine if he committed a crime, that is shaky & circular logic.  For LEOs, arresting someone (other than a black professor at an ivy league school) is a low-risk proposition (see sovereign immunity).  When in doubt, break out the steel bracelets and let the reptilian lawyers(1) figure it out is what most my buddies who are LEOs run with.

============

Late 19th Century:
White racist mobs (and their apologists) lynching black men from a convenient tree.

Early 21st Century:
Black racist mobs (and their apologists) lynching hispanic/multi-racial men from a convenient keyboard.

============


(1) The cops I know have an equally low opinion of prosecutors as they have of defense attorneys.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #152 on: March 23, 2012, 03:23:12 PM »
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roo_ster

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #153 on: March 23, 2012, 03:34:21 PM »
Quote from: MicroBalrog on March 23, 2012, 03:23:12 PM
On hoodie bans:

http://www.news.com.au/national/brisbane-stores-to-ban-hoodies-in-crime-crackdown/story-e6frfkvr-1226083800110

"The Stupid is strong with this one."

Yeah, hoodies are the problem.  Sort of like automobiles are the problem WRT drive-by shootings.
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Seenterman

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #154 on: March 23, 2012, 04:24:21 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ljy_SHODEU&feature=share

Well holy hell, wouldn't have believed it until i heard it. Geraldo Rivera is claiming that the hoodie is just as much to blame for they shooting as Zimmerman is. What's wrong with Geraldo? I didn't think it was possible for anyone was scared of a damn sweater with a hood on it. Everyone I know owns at least one hoodie, hell I own multiple. Is this a relatively new piece of clothing that's intimidating to older folk (I say this as a 25 year old)? Do you guys own hoodies? Own jackets with hoods attached to them? What the big damn difference?
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Jamie B

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #155 on: March 23, 2012, 04:36:48 PM »
Rivera is a *expletive deleted*bag of the first degree.
He has been on a losing streak since opening that mobster's empty safe years ago.

Typical Fox News crappola.

Maybe we should all walk around naked to eliminate all clothing issues.

In addition to hoodies, let's ban trench coats, any color darker than blue, watch caps, full face knit winter protection, any coat that is not pink, all athletic logo clothing, athletic shoes (which were only made to help criminals run faster), tattoos, body piercing, any hair darker than brunette, all facial hair, sunglasses, tanning that makes skin darker, large noses, heavy eyebrows, and large dogs.

Oh, yeah, those masculine heavy cable knitted sweaters!

*expletive deleted*ing news media hype bullshiite!

I would replace him with anyone on this forum, and the credibility would increase fourfold.
Hell, if it was Fistful, we could blame him for everything!!!
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brimic

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #156 on: March 23, 2012, 04:48:59 PM »
Quote
In addition to hoodies, let's ban trench coats, any color darker than blue, watch caps, full face knit winter protection, any coat that is not pink, all athletic logo clothing, athletic shoes (which were only made to help criminals run faster), tattoos, body piercing, any hair darker than brunette, all facial hair, sunglasses, tanning that makes skin darker, large noses, heavy eyebrows, and large dogs.


You forgot ballcaps with the brim worn flat.
and spandex.
spandex on anyone but a very select few could justify a homicide.
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Scout26

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #157 on: March 23, 2012, 04:50:00 PM »
Listen to the 911 tape. (ignore the pics and commentary)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL72w4xiTVU

Zimmerman says he's watching Martin.  
Then at :49 Zimmerman says that Martin is staring at him.
At :59 Zimmerman says that Martin is coming toward him.
At 1:22 "He's coming to check me out"
At 1:38 "These aholes always get away"
At 2:08 "He's running"

Sounds to me like Martin saw Zimmerman following him, got somewhat closer to see Zimmerman, (There is no indication of any kind of communication between them) and then took off running away from Zimmerman, WHO GOT OUT OF HIS TRUCK AND CHASED HIM !!!

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

Someone who follows my son in a vehicle, then gets out and chases him, best believe that my son is going to put up one helluva fight.  

Tell me again what Martin did that was wrong?
 
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Jamie B

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #158 on: March 23, 2012, 04:59:02 PM »
Ironically, Martin was standing his ground, as he had all right to.....
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Seenterman

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #159 on: March 23, 2012, 06:58:59 PM »
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Scout26

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #160 on: March 23, 2012, 07:03:30 PM »
Quote from: Jamie B on March 23, 2012, 04:59:02 PM
Ironically, Martin was standing his ground, as he had all right to.....

DING DING DING


We have a winner !!!!
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Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #161 on: March 23, 2012, 07:07:14 PM »
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Jamie B

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #162 on: March 23, 2012, 10:11:24 PM »
Quote from: scout26 on March 23, 2012, 07:03:30 PM
DING DING DING


We have a winner !!!!

Why thank you! I will pass on the wet sloppy kiss, though!  =D
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De Selby

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #163 on: March 23, 2012, 10:44:53 PM »
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"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #164 on: March 23, 2012, 10:50:24 PM »
has spmeone said that?  or are you just being lawyerly?
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

De Selby

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #165 on: March 23, 2012, 10:52:31 PM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 23, 2012, 10:50:24 PM
has spmeone said that?  or are you just being lawyerly?

What's the point of all this posting about hooded sweatshirts?  Or was that not meant to imply that trayvon's appearance justified this event in part?
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"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #166 on: March 23, 2012, 10:56:01 PM »
so you are being lawyerly?  haven't read all the posts and links?
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Scout26

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #167 on: March 23, 2012, 10:57:24 PM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 23, 2012, 07:07:14 PM
http://www.universalhub.com/crime/20090324-man_mugged_by_thugs_in_hoodies_in.html
http://www.def-shop.com/Thug-Life/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-499845/Jeremy-Clarkson-launches-attack-teenage-thugs-hoodies-ruin-daughters-birthday.html


gonna play the game?  learn to wear the name

Really?

So my hooded White Sox 2005 World Series hooded sweatshirt makes me a thug?  What about my Gadsden Flag Yellow Illinois Gun Owner Lobby Day hoodie that I wear when I visit the state legislature?  The plain blue lyrca one that my son wore to school because it was misting and a little cold?  What about the ones that our soldiers wear as PT gear?
  

You've hit bottom C&SD and have started to dig.
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Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #168 on: March 23, 2012, 11:04:27 PM »
if one goes for an image   wears the uniform as it were   one should expect certain reactions.  if i wear a white collar i expect an upgrade to first class if i fly to ireland

when i wore my hair to my ass favored the gaudy ear rings and wore leather i got a cretain reaction and it was part of what i wanted.
sadly it also got me attention i'd rather have avoided.

if you think its just the hoody and that a guy like you wearing one is the same you are either disingenuous or naive
if i, a chubby 1/2 white boy wear a hoody and try to look like a thug all i come off as is pathetic
young kid 6 foot plus at night in a different hood gets a different result
in the real world anyway
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Scout26

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #169 on: March 23, 2012, 11:17:03 PM »
Quote from: De Selby on March 23, 2012, 10:44:53 PM
Anyone who believes spotting a hooded sweatshirt is grounds for armed action needs to have his guns taken away. 
Again, I have to agree with DeSelby.   


So according to C&SD, wearing the wrong clothes can be a death sentence, if you run into a rent-a-cop wannabe who wants to be judge, jury and executioner....


 ;/ ;/

 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:   
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Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

zxcvbob

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #170 on: March 24, 2012, 12:01:00 AM »
We've got some lawyers and a judge here -- let's say for a minute that the police don't really have enough evidence for an arrest initially, but they think it's probably a bad shoot and they are still investigating.  But they bow to political pressure and arrest him anyway while the investigation is ongoing.  Where does the defendant's right to a speedy trial kick in?  Could it force the prosecutor to go to trial before he's ready, then the shooter gets off when he should have been convicted?

Seems to me the prudent thing to do might be to investigate the shooting *before* making an arrest.  It's not like they don't know where he lives.

Almost everybody who can get in front of a camera is calling for Zimmerman to be arrested and convicted (they skip over the trial; I guess it's not important.)  What they are really calling for is a good old fashion lynchin', they just want the state to do it so they don't have to get their hands dirty.

Hold off on the outrage until the investigation is closed prematurely or there's an obvious coverup.  That doesn't seem to be the case here.  Not yet.

Sorry, I got on a soapbox.  What about that speedy trial thing?
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TommyGunn

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #171 on: March 24, 2012, 12:17:07 AM »
Quote from: De Selby on March 23, 2012, 10:44:53 PM
Anyone who believes spotting a hooded sweatshirt is grounds for armed action needs to have his guns taken away. 
:facepalm: No one seriously believes that a fashion crime should receive capitol punishment, DeSelby. ;/
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MicroBalrog

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #172 on: March 24, 2012, 01:00:55 AM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on March 23, 2012, 11:04:27 PM
if one goes for an image   wears the uniform as it were   one should expect certain reactions.  if i wear a white collar i expect an upgrade to first class if i fly to ireland

when i wore my hair to my ass favored the gaudy ear rings and wore leather i got a cretain reaction and it was part of what i wanted.
sadly it also got me attention i'd rather have avoided.

if you think its just the hoody and that a guy like you wearing one is the same you are either disingenuous or naive
if i, a chubby 1/2 white boy wear a hoody and try to look like a thug all i come off as is pathetic
young kid 6 foot plus at night in a different hood gets a different result
in the real world anyway

Help me, C&SD. Do you make it a habit to run after random 'thuggish' looking individuals, who are not presently assaulting anybody and are walking down the street?

See if I see an individual that I think is looking shifty or potentially violent, my instinct is to stay away from them.

What Zimmerman did was not sensible. Maybe - we do not yet know - he acted in self-defense later. Maybe he didn't. But he did not act like a smart, reasonable person.
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LadySmith

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #173 on: March 24, 2012, 01:58:53 AM »
Quote from: roo_ster on March 23, 2012, 03:34:21 PM
Sort of like automobiles are the problem WRT drive-by shootings.

Agreed.
Also like guns are the problem WRT humans wanting to kill one another. When things get messy, some folk just start blaming inanimate objects.

In regards to this whole story, I have a few dogs I could let get into this fight (race, police conduct, good vs. bad shoot, etc.), but I'm waiting on more facts.

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: stand your ground or is it neighborhood watch death squad?
« Reply #174 on: March 24, 2012, 02:25:25 AM »
I don't think CS&D is advocating that wearing a hoodie justifies getting shot up anymore than a woman wearing provocative clothes justifies a sexual assualt. I think he is pointing out the tendency of folks to associate certain characteristics/mannerisms/dress styles with certain stereotypes. Just because the tendency exist doesn't make it right.

If a person dresses like a farmer it isn't out of place for people to think he might be a farmer. If a person dresses like a gangbanger ( and I don't know for sure that the kid was dressed like a gangbanger) some people are going to assume that they are a gangbanger. Don't make it right but it just is.

And, as far as banning hoodies is concerned, if they try to do that I'll wear one everyday, weather permitting.
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