Author Topic: Hardened Electronics?  (Read 2985 times)

Antibubba

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Hardened Electronics?
« on: May 18, 2012, 11:06:13 PM »
I've been reading a bit about Super solar flares and EMP, and the ways to protect electronics.  Faraday Cages are covered in detail, but I also read about "Hardened" electronics.  They are never explained, though.

How is it done?
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Nick1911

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Re: Hardened Electronics?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2012, 11:40:01 PM »
No clue.

If I had to guess, low pass filters on I/O wires to computer parts?  Perhaps using things that can deal with a voltage transient more then CMOS can?  (TTL?)

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RevDisk

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Re: Hardened Electronics?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2012, 08:50:50 AM »
I've been reading a bit about Super solar flares and EMP, and the ways to protect electronics.  Faraday Cages are covered in detail, but I also read about "Hardened" electronics.  They are never explained, though.

How is it done?

Designing the electronics to take more punishment, or shielding the electronics. 
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Hardened Electronics?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2012, 09:56:32 AM »
I've been reading a bit about Super solar flares and EMP, and the ways to protect electronics.  Faraday Cages are covered in detail, but I also read about "Hardened" electronics.  They are never explained, though.

How is it done?


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Re: Hardened Electronics?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2012, 11:57:01 AM »
This is done through isolating individual devices on a chip from its neighbors in a process called silicon on insulator; a common method is silicon on sapphire.  I don't remember all the details on these processes though, it's been ~5 years since I had my microelectronic device fabrication class.
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230RN

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Re: Hardened Electronics?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2012, 05:15:31 PM »
I remember reading in Scientific American a while ago that "they" were trying out pneumatic logic devices based on the Coanda Effect to get around the EMP problem.  A tiny puff of input air would "switch" a constant stream of gas from one channel of a "Y"-tube to the other.

Didn't get anywhere, I guess.

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zahc

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Re: Hardened Electronics?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2012, 12:40:02 PM »
Pneumatic logic is far from a new idea. Clippard will send you a whole catalog of miniature pnematics logic parts for free. We have some old devices in the factory that are purely pneumatic. Later revisions went to PLCs.

In order to answer the EMP thing, someone must first present me with the problem. Everyone seems to just agree that "EMPs" (whatever that is) will "damage" "electronics". It's such a nebulous idea that it can't be addressed as-such.
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230RN

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Re: Hardened Electronics?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2012, 06:26:25 PM »
Well, once again, as a mental excercise for my wrinkled old cortex and working strictly from memory without external referencing, the way I understand it is thus:

1.  Most of our control and computer circuitry nowadays is composed of large-scale integrated circuits, which are manufactured by vacuum deposition of masked-off layers of components.  For example, a junction transistor can be manufactured by  vacuum-depositing a layer of p-doped semiconductor, then a thin layer of n-doped semiconductor, then another layer of p-doped semiconductor, thus forming a PNP transistor.  This is done on a microscopic scale, which is why some of our computer processing chips may contain literally millions of transistors as logical elements.

2.  These logical elements must be connected to other circuit components such as tiny capacitors and tiny resistors, etc, and this is done by cleverly arranging vacuum deposition "masks" to the substrate and deposting other things on top of the first layers.  For example, in the above PNP transistor, the top layer may be connected to other things by applying a layer of insulation with a hole in it right on top of the upper "P" layer, and then applying a layer of conducting material, which fills the hole and thus contacts the top "P" layer.  This new top layer may now be connected to other components or to the outside world for taking output from that top "P' layer of that "layered" transistor.  This forms a very simple "integrated circuit.

3.  Multiply this process by many many layers, once again by applying cleverly-designed successive "masks" to the buildup of these layers, and you will have a complete set of circuitry capable of processing data --e.g., a computer processor chip.

4. The insulating layers which wer applied are very thin, since the thicker they are, the slower this new "integrated circuit" will work, and we are talking operating clock frequencies in the gigaHertz ranges.  (When I started in electronics, 50 megaHertz was just about the edge of the observable universe, or at least that's the way I looked at it!)

5.  SInce these insulating layers are so thin, it will not take a very high voltage to puncture them and ruin the circuit.  Sometimes even only 10 volts can "pop" them.

6.  This is the reason so much care is taken in assembling these circuits, for example, clipping the assembler's body to a ground circuit to dissipate any static charges on the assembler's body which might "pop" the insulation layers.  Bear in mind that even slight movements, especially in a dry atmosphere, can build up thousands of volts.  And they were shipped in "static bags."

7.   Whle protective measure may be taken to prevent excessive voltages from appearing across these insulating layers (such as "layering in" protective diodes across the insulation layers), a really excesive voltage may destroy not only the layer, but the protective diodes themselves.

Bored yet?

8.  Thus, for example,  a lot of concern was generated as to how to protect the vast numbers of logical circuits aboard aircraft subject to lightning strokes ( a fairly common occurence) when the new composite skins of these aircraft began to be used.  In "normal" metal-skinned aircraft, the strokes would usually just travel along the skin of the aircraft and that would be that, with rare damage to the electronic components.  But with high-tech non-conducting skins, the only path was through the internal wiring of the avionics themselves, which would destroy all the computing equipment used nowadays.

(In this connection, I am told that one of the reasons the Russians kept using vacuum-tube ("valves" for the Brits among us) avionic equipment was to minimize the risk of damage from things like lightning.)

9.  Obviously, static discharges are not the only things which can produce "higher-than-designed-for" voltages within these circuits. A good strong pulse of magnetism or a high-potential electric field can, too.  And as much as the components themselves may be isolated or shielded from these  things, inevitably, connections to the outside world must exist, which will conduct these pulses to the internal integrated circuits.  Usually, these are called "antennas." :)

I even had a telephone anwering machine "smoked" by a not-very-close stroke on the power or telephone lines once, I could not tell which.

So, even if you can't (or won't ) call that a "demonstration" of vulnerability, I am sure that ll the effort involved in protecting the vital little "chips" inside our modern electronics is not wasted, and that somewhere there is a body of evidence to show that this kind of equipment has to be protected from both static and magnetic pulses.  In this connection I suspect, without actually knowing, that there are also heating effects, besides the purely electronic effects, which can destroy all the delicate little insulating layers in integrated circuitry.

As far as "how" EMP or static protection is done, it can be by sheilding, where all the wiring to the critical circuits is surrounded by another conductor which is connected to ground, therby bypassing the excessive external voltages to ground.  One example of this is the metal skin of an aircraft, another example is the braided conductor around microphone cables and your "cable TV" 75-ohm cables.  This shielding is essentially nothing but a long, thin Faraday Cage which runs along the important wire. :)

It can also be done by providing alternate routes for the excessive voltages, as in the protective diodes I mentioned above.  Most solid-state diodes have a "forward conduction" voltage, where they will not conduct in the normal direction until a certain voltage is reached, and this is usually 0.3 volts for germanium diods, and 0.6 or so volts for silicon diodes.  Zener diodes, which will conduct in the "wrong" direction above a certain voltage, can also be used.

Ham operators usually have some kind of lightning protection for their antenna systems which consists of a "spark gap" connected between their feed-to-or-from-the-antenna transmission lines and a good earth ground.  Thus, anything which exceeds the "normal" voltages on their transmission lines will jump that gap and be shunted to earth.

You will ocassionaly see what appear to be loose wires hanging down from high-tension electric power transmission lines.  These are also "spark gap" protective devices, which will throw a spark to the neutral wire up there, performing the same function as the Ham's spark gap protectors.

The same techniques can be used for the micro-circuitry in electronic equipment, but it's just a matter of scale.

I welcome challenges and corrections to the above mental excercise.

Apologetically submitted, since I am working purely from memory,

Terry, 230RN

« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 06:59:51 PM by 230RN »
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sanglant

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Re: Hardened Electronics?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2012, 08:05:00 PM »
or you could just use tubes. :angel:



i would love to see someone build a obd2 system using tubes. could stick them behind the dash and use them for the dash light as well. =D of course, it would probably fill the trunk. :facepalm: [tinfoil]

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Hardened Electronics?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2012, 11:59:57 PM »
And you wouldn't need a heater in the winter.
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230RN

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Re: Hardened Electronics?
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2012, 02:38:53 PM »
That remark makes me wonder if, with today's miniaturization techniques, it would be possible to manufacture triodes about the size of the original discrete transistors.  I mean, like, look at the size of the "grain of wheat" hobby lamps for model railroad buffs.

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G15581

"Original" workhorse CK-722 transistor:



At one time, IBM manufactured a "cartridge" consisting of a vacuum tube and the associated standard circuitry for a logic unit that was meant to be plugged in and out, all ready to go:

http://www.nzeldes.com/HOC/PluggableUnits.htm

And, I am told, certain vacuum tubes (or maybe it was thyratrons) had some circuitry for the tube "printed" on the outside of the glass envelope.  (No reference available.)

Soooo....

Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 02:47:14 PM by 230RN »
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RocketMan

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Re: Hardened Electronics?
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2012, 02:42:22 PM »
Google for "sub-miniature vacuum tubes".  You'll be surprised at what was, and still is, out there.
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230RN

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Re: Hardened Electronics?
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2012, 02:51:01 PM »
Well, I know about Nuvistors, which are almost an inch high:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuvistor

And I've worked with the "peanut tubes" like they used to use in the Civil Defense radiometers, hearing aids, and small battery-operated broadcast band receivers, but I'm thinking wayyyy smaller than that.

I'm thinking of tiny vacuum tube "buffers" to isolate the fragile solid-state logic from the rest of the mean old nasty EMP-filled universe, not necessarily as complete "computers" completely based on vacuum tube technology.  I knew ham radio operators who would not use solid-state "finals" in their transmitters, and insisted that their final amplifiers (and receiver input stages) be tube-based. 

By the way, I'm not trying to "sell" the idea of VT-based IT electronics, just examining it.  As in,  what happens when we run out of silicon?

Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 03:20:04 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

zahc

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230RN

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Re: Hardened Electronics?
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2012, 02:56:15 PM »
Hm!  Interesting.  I guess the "mean free path," if you can describe it with that number, is so much greater than the "tube" dimensions that it doesn't matter if it's in a vacuum or not.  Cool!

WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.