Author Topic: god save me from dog lovers  (Read 6259 times)

roo_ster

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2012, 08:07:22 PM »
when i had the ford ranger i put an rv ac on the cap and plugged it in at work so the dog would be comfy.  while i worked grill in a kitchen that was a smidge warm. folks knew i was crazy but it was a good kinda crazy  plus i could nap in the truck with her

Yep, you're crazy.

Bet nobody stole your truck, though.
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roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2012, 08:08:41 PM »
Outside of walmart and there was only one Forest Gump?

Let the dog out or not, I'd still be equally pissed about just the window. And some dipshit busy body dogooder? I have doubts they'd understand my expectation of a check to have the window replaced. Let alone vet bills if the glass injured the dog. And my time to get the thing replaced.
  i wouldn't blame ya for any of that.  it freaks me out how mellow i've gotten.  got sick a few years back  thought i was toast. after that everything else comes off as meh.  unless you are family then i still go off. but i'm working on that
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2012, 08:11:05 PM »
Yep, you're crazy.

Bet nobody stole your truck, though.

i can live with that kinda crazy.  its like the handicapped ramp for dogs on my house.  and it wasn't for my dog. as crazy as i am i still don't deserve what the dogs in my life freely give me everyday . i fall far short but they seem to be willing to tolerate me
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

K Frame

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2012, 10:36:29 PM »
I have smashed a car window before because some idiot left a dog in the car in hot weather.

Unfortunately, the dog didn't make it.

Had the owner gotten back before the police got there, he wouldn't have made it, either.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

roo_ster

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2012, 12:35:37 PM »
I can see breaking the law my own self (vandalism, destruction of property, etc.) to save the life of a child by busting out an auto window.

No way I'd do so for another man's possession.  If he wants to treat his property poorly, that is his affair.  I'll think less of him for it and make my disdain widely known, but in the end the animal is a possession and it is inappropriate to vandalize another man's property because I don't like the way he treats what he bought with his own earnings.

I do wonder about all this glass-breaking, though, in a more general sense.  How many glass-breakers have also crept up and into an Arkansas chicken house (trespass) in July or August and released a couple thousand fryers (likely vandalism to defeat locks, at the minimum) into the wilds to save the inevitable 100+ or so that will die of heat stroke?  Plenty of analogous cases out there, but it is the doggie in the car outside of Starbucks that elicits vandalism on its behalf.
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roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

MillCreek

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2012, 01:10:27 PM »

No way I'd do so for another man's possession.  If he wants to treat his property poorly, that is his affair.  I'll think less of him for it and make my disdain widely known, but in the end the animal is a possession and it is inappropriate to vandalize another man's property because I don't like the way he treats what he bought with his own earnings.

I think a key difference is when society considers it a crime.  Animal cruelty or neglect is generally a crime.  Setting your house on fire can be prosecuted as arson.  The issue of whether it is your own property can be immaterial in such considerations.  Each person has to make their own determination over which scenarios they feel compelled to intervene appropriately.
_____________
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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

roo_ster

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2012, 04:12:53 PM »
I think a key difference is when society considers it a crime.  Animal cruelty or neglect is generally a crime.  Setting your house on fire can be prosecuted as arson.  The issue of whether it is your own property can be immaterial in such considerations.  Each person has to make their own determination over which scenarios they feel compelled to intervene appropriately.

Fair point, especially if the arson is malicious and hurts a third party.

But, I have witnessed examples of both (deliberately setting a building afire & animal cruelty) that in no way would justify some third-party twit intruding on the proceedings.

Building Fire:
1. If the home is not owned outright & mortgage-free by the fire-starter, the bank that holds the mortgage & title is the true owner.  They are injured by the destruction of their property.  Not applicable to property owned outright like one would presume a dog would be.

2. If the home is near others, setting it on fire is a risk to those others who may burn down, too.  Not applicable as the poor dog's death is not going to injure neighbors.

3. If the fire-starter tries to collect on an insurance policy, the insurer is injured.  Not applicable, unless dog is insured and the owner tries to collect.

FTR, I have family in rural parts who have deliberately destroyed buildings(1) and deliberately burned property.  None of the three exceptions above applied, so they went about their business, unmolested.

=====

"Animal Cruelty" laws are a recent innovation by those who wish to insulate themselves from the reality of human/animal and animal/animal interaction.  Like the chickens vs doggie example, as long as it happens out of sight, folks are more than happy to ignorantly feast on the proceeds of cruelty to animals.

Have the jokers who wrote those laws ever been to a slaughterhouse?  Or even a farm?  Have they ever eaten meat not sourced from the grocery store?  More cruelty and death to fill a supertanker in one meat-packing plant.  Heck, do they even know what happens to Rex when he is taken to the vet to be neutered?

Bah, it is all eyewash.  Every bit of it.  It makes us uncomfortable so we banish it from our sight and punish those so gauche as to remind us.

Again, family in rural parts provided opportunities to do all sort of cruel things to animals in the normal course of running a farm.  So much that if there were some way to quantify cruelty, one poor dog dying of heat stroke in suburbia would be a drop in the bucket.

Besides, private property either means something or it doesn't.  "You can do with as you will with your property unless I think you oughtn't, even if it harms no other person" is not a formulation congruent with liberty or respect for property rights.  This is not to say that use of moral suasion & social pressure are not valid.  I think both ought to be used early & often.









(1) Why?  In one case, property taxes.  He wasn't using the building enough to justify the property taxes he paid on it.  So, it got torched and off the tax rolls.  "Burning an outbuilding seems extreme.  Why not just tear it down with a front-end loader?"  OK, then what do you do with the great big pile of lumber?  Gonna get burnt anyway.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

K Frame

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2012, 04:30:42 PM »
"I can see breaking the law my own self (vandalism, destruction of property, etc.) to save the life of a child by busting out an auto window."

Hum.... I can't.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

MillCreek

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2012, 04:52:30 PM »
You could also argue that laws against child cruelty, beating your wife and owning slaves are also fairly recent cultural constructs caused by an evolving standard of what is property and what rights do the owners of property have.

_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

roo_ster

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2012, 05:55:38 PM »
"I can see breaking the law my own self (vandalism, destruction of property, etc.) to save the life of a child by busting out an auto window."

Hum.... I can't.

Of course you can't, silly.  We are separated by several states and your line of sight is blocked.  Also, my statement was speculative in nature and is not actually occurring in the present tense.

If you meant the other way, well, misanthropy is its own punishment.

You could also argue that laws against child cruelty, beating your wife and owning slaves are also fairly recent cultural constructs caused by an evolving standard of what is property and what rights do the owners of property have.

Indeed.

Well, ~160 years might be stretching "recent."

Also, I don't think that it could be argued that the 13th-15th amendments are eyewash like the animal cruelty laws are.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Tallpine

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2012, 07:05:19 PM »
Just take the dog with you into walmart  =D
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2012, 07:09:45 PM »
hes a bit hyper to pass as a service animal.  in other words i've thought about it.  got thrown off metro 20 some years ago for faking blind to travel with a lab
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

GigaBuist

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2012, 09:54:55 PM »
It sucks, but at our place standard procedure when a customer complains about a dog in the car is have them call 911.  We're not dealing with it.  If we do it just becomes two customers arguing with us.  One saying the dogs are in danger and the other saying they're OK and we've got no authority to do anything about it short of ejecting somebody for trespass.

People don't argue with the police as much.  Well, not the smart ones.

I think we only had two incidents this year.  One was an idiot that shouldn't have left the dog in the car and the other parked in the shade and had ice water for the dogs.

The funny thing?  Dogs can come in the store.  Hell, we've got dog treats at the customer service counter near the entrance that we hand  out.

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2012, 11:35:18 PM »
Just take the dog with you into walmart  =D

Put some clothes on him, and he won't look that diffrent then some of the other patrons... But probably behaves better...
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Tallpine

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2012, 11:38:23 PM »
Put some clothes on him, and he won't look that diffrent then some of the other patrons... But probably behaves better...

Wouldn't take much clothes  ;)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Perd Hapley

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2012, 11:43:56 PM »
I have not had this problem. We leave our dog in the car from time to time, just for short periods. The longest stretch would be maybe 20 minutes to eat lunch, while on a long trip. Or just to stop at a store to get something (not an hour-long grocery haul or anything).

We don't do this in particularly hot weather, and we just leave the windows rolled down a bit.

No one has said anything, that we've noticed, and the dog has been fine.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Perd Hapley

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2012, 12:17:04 AM »
You could also argue that laws against child cruelty, beating your wife and owning slaves are also fairly recent cultural constructs caused by an evolving standard of what is property and what rights do the owners of property have.


Since we freed the slaves and the women, we should free the other animals, too, right?  :P
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MechAg94

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2012, 09:03:23 AM »
Put some clothes on him, and he won't look that diffrent then some of the other patrons... But probably behaves better...
Get a harness and wear really dark glasses. 

Or get a pickup truck and leave him in the back.
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mtnbkr

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Re: god save me from dog lovers
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2012, 09:52:22 AM »
Quote from: roo_ster
Have the jokers who wrote those laws ever been to a slaughterhouse?  Or even a farm?  Have they ever eaten meat not sourced from the grocery store?  More cruelty and death to fill a supertanker in one meat-packing plant.  Heck, do they even know what happens to Rex when he is taken to the vet to be neutered?

I support animal cruelty laws.  Animals taken in as pets and companions deserve better treatment than animals grown as food (not that the latter deserves abuse, but it's hard to give food animals the same standard of care as a pet and still maintain reasonable costs).

Lest you think I'm too far removed from reality to know the difference.  I hunt and have eaten the animals I've killed within hours of shooting them myself.   As for getting "Rex" neutered, I know what they do and that's why I paid the extra to provide additional pain medication for our dog.  I haven't lived on a farm or worked in a slaughterhouse, but I'm well aware of what goes on at each.

Chris