Author Topic: 4wd wobble  (Read 2589 times)

Tallpine

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4wd wobble
« on: July 10, 2012, 01:20:57 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/07/09/what-need-to-know-about-jeep-death-wobble/?intcmp=features

This has been going on for at least 40 years, but now folks are so wimpy that they make a big deal about it now that the Jeep Wrangler is the only consumer 4wd with a solid front axle.  ;/

I had a bout of it long ago myself, after bashing the factory tie rod dampener (horizontal shock absorber) by getting my pickup buried to the headlights in a mud hole.

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Jamie B

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Re: 4wd wobble
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2012, 01:32:06 PM »
We are truly turning into a nation of pussies.

Jeeps are tightly strung and have a short wheel base, and a high center-of-gravity.

This not a recipe for Porsche 911 handling.

I had a few tank slappers on my Suzuki 1100EZ years ago.
Instead of calling everyone that I know, I learned to ride smoothly, and keep the bike under 135 mph!
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Tuco

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Re: 4wd wobble
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2012, 01:32:53 PM »
Death wobble is the reason I am the proud owner of a





wait for it






20 ton hydraulic press.


The death wobble can be avoided altogether by following the manufacturer's maintenance schedule for drivetrain and suspension, or repaired in an afternoon with the proper tools and 40 dollars in suspension nuggets.

Replace the front Ujoints and drain and fill the diff while you're under there.  
If you get the deathwobble, I'm sure that's been negected, too.
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Tallpine

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Re: 4wd wobble
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2012, 03:08:50 PM »
Like I said, my 1973 K-20 got the wobbles after I stuck it deep in the mud and had to winch it out with an old ww2 vintage power wagon.

I think GM knew about the issue which is why the shock absorber on the tie rod was factory equipment.

It only happened at about 35-40 mph and once you got up to hiway speed it was fine.  Replacing the shock absorber was a simple and cheap fix once I figured out the problem.


It sorta reminds me of back in the 1970s when Consumer Reports did a test of the original Landcruiser and failed it badly because it couldn't do the slalom at 60mph  :facepalm:
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

never_retreat

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Re: 4wd wobble
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2012, 04:42:56 PM »
Every vehicle made is going to have a resonate frequency when you hit it you will get the wobble or hop.
The old jeep pickups were good for the death hop.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: 4wd wobble
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2012, 09:40:47 PM »
Chrysler Jeep had to recall all the export models of the 1999 Grand Cherokee and change the suspension bushings to kill death wobble. The durometer (hardness) was different on the export suspensions, and that allowed the harmonic to take effect.

Worn parts is generally NOT the problem (an argument I have on an almost daily basis on the several Jeep forums I've hung out on). My very first experience with true death wobble (as opposed to tire shimmy) was in a brand new 1999 Grand Cherokee that was completely stock and had never been off-road. It happened once, and never came back even though nothing was replaced.

Quote
The so-called “death wobble” is relatively common among vehicles that use a solid front axle, and the Wrangler is the only light truck currently on sale that falls into this category. The design is prized for its extreme off-road and heavy duty hauling capability. The wobble is a harmonic resonance resulting from a loose or worn part in the steering or suspension, such as a tie rod end, and usually set off by hitting a bump at a certain speed. It often goes away after the vehicle stops, but can return under similar circumstances. However, if not addressed, over time the vibration can cause damage to other components of the vehicle and exacerbate the issue. Many websites targeted at off-roaders have sections dedicated to fixing the issue on a variety of vehicles, which is often the result of installing aftermarket parts.

BS. The cause is invariably tire imbalance. And death wobble cannot cause wear to other steering components for the simple reason that you CANNOT drive a vehicle that is experiencing death wobble. There's a reason why it's called that.

Quote
In a statement responding to the letter, Chrysler says of the condition that, “if experienced, it is routinely corrected with a change of tires or installation of a simple steering dampener.” The automaker has issued several Techincal Service Bulletins (TSB) related to the steering system of the Wranglers in question, but hasn’t said if they are a direct response to the alleged issue. TSBs are issued to dealer service departments to inform them of a known problem with a vehicle and instructions on how to deal with it, but are generally not made public.

More BS. I'm pretty sure all Wranglers come with steering dampers. I know my Cherokees all have one. Changing the tires changes the balance, and THAT's the crux of the issue.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: 4wd wobble
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2012, 10:59:54 PM »
Wussies.  Complaining about "death wobble" in a Jeep means you've never done a 100mph-plus run on a craptastic'd-out motorcycle with one collapsed fork, a worn-to-the-threads front tire, and a rear axle bearing that left office about the same time Nixon did.

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Tuco

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Re: 4wd wobble
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2012, 11:23:32 PM »
The classic death wobble, so named long before Jeep was bought out by Chrysler, is nothing like a resonant shimmy or the vibration caused by poorly balanced or out of round bias ply tires.  Those who claim it is similar are just ignorant.  Death wobble will cause even the most experienced drivers and mechanics to stop the vehicle immediately and let out a great big WTF.

I chased one around for a while that was cured only by replacing panhard rod and radius arm bushings.

New tires didn't stop it.  Four new ujoints didn't stop it. Alignment, nope.  Steering dampener only masks the symptoms for a short while.  Death wobble is a very real phenomena.  I know this not because of hanging out in chat rooms.  I know this from driving and wrenching, wrenching and driving.
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Tallpine

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Re: 4wd wobble
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2012, 11:38:46 PM »
When it's actually happening, the steering wheel will jerk back and forth in your hands.

When my K-20 had the problem, if you accellerated quickly enough you could get past the wobble speed without too much shaking and then drive smoothly.

All I know is that the factory dampener was bent from getting stuck in the mud, and the wobble went away after replacing it.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

HeroHog

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Re: 4wd wobble
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2012, 08:07:49 AM »
This is also known as "Caster Shake" and you see it a lot in Sprint cars at low speeds.
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BobR

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Re: 4wd wobble
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2012, 12:38:44 PM »
I have owned several Jeeps, Wranglers and Grand Cherokees (both solid axle and newer) and have never experienced the "death wobble" with any of them.

OTOH, I did hit a dog on my motorcycle when a teenager (Yamaha 250 twin 2 stroke) and experienced a "near-death wobble". To this day I have no real idea why I didn't go down, but that bike was doing some serious flopping around.   =|

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Tallpine

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Re: 4wd wobble
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2012, 01:12:59 PM »
I'm not sure why they call it a "death wobble"  ;/

It's scary as heck when it happens, but since the oscillations are equal to both sides it doesn't really throw you out of control.

The trick is to either slow down or speed up and it will stop wobbling.


It's just one of many issues that I've encountered when you spend a lot of time on backroads and/or driving older vehicles.  We routinely get so much mud stuck in our wheels that they become terribly out of balance.  I've had mud and rocks jam the front brake calipers so they can't squeeze the rotors.

And then there's the old trucks where the steering is just a suggestion ...  ;)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

RoadKingLarry

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Re: 4wd wobble
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2012, 09:56:56 PM »
Quote
Jeeps are tightly strung and have a short wheel base, and a high center-of-gravity.
Define "Short"

Quote
The old jeep pickups were good for the death hop.
Never had that problem

Quote
And then there's the old trucks where the steering is just a suggestion ...
I can relate to that and lets don't even bring brakes into the discussion




On the other hand my '92 Cherokee is pushing 250K miles and still has good tight handling and all I've ever done to it is regular maintenance
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