Author Topic: emails in sandusky case are real bad  (Read 9915 times)

Perd Hapley

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2012, 10:35:53 AM »
Those who prey on children usually find themselves gravitating towards positions where they will have easy access to/authority over children. Cop, teacher, Scout master, clergy... all "good hunting grounds" for a ped...

Hey, you forgot coach.
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AJ Dual

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2012, 10:42:39 AM »
Agreed.

Just wondering aloud if the celibate clergy is also attractive to those who want to "fight it" (for a time), then they fail. And of course, "going where the prey is" is probably not always a totally conscious exercise. It's probably impossible to determine who may go into the clergy to try and "hide" from their issues, and who's going there intentionally for that very reason.

Probably irrelevant anyway.

I don't know about the bigger Catholic strongholds on the East Coast, but even here in Milwaukee, they're pretty much down to 1 priest per 2-3 parishes now and they have to make their rounds. No idea what's going on in the Spanish speaking immigrant communities.

At the rate they're going, there'll be one priest per city soon, and the abuse rate for Catholic clergy will be "zero" anyway.
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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2012, 02:37:46 PM »
AJD:

One problem the RC Church had was that many (not all) RC seminaries in the USA went completely apey with political & theological liberalism as well as homosexuality back in the 1960s through early 1980s when JPII came down on those seminaries like a ton of bricks.

So, you had a large contingent that had dirt on each other.  If one of them extends his activity to pederasty and the others find out...who are they gonna call?  By rights they ought to denounce the pederast to the RC hierarchy and the local police.  But reality has shown us that the pederast gets shuffled around by fellow clergy that didn't want their own sexual activity to come under scrutiny.

There are several protestant denominations that have gone off the rails and have similar problems, but they are a steadily shrinking minority of protestantism in the USA.  The growing denominations are terribly unfashionable WRT these practices and are less tolerant of those who engage in them.  Still doesn't drive the frequency to zero, but attenuates it quite a bit.

Oh, and what Strings wrote.  Scouts 'round here take the safety of their charges real serious-like and implement policy to reduce the occurrence and opportunities.



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Scout26

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2012, 03:06:30 PM »

Oh, and what Strings wrote.  Scouts 'round here take the safety of their charges real serious-like and implement policy to reduce the occurrence and opportunities.


Boy Scouts everywhere.  Youth Protection is the Holy Writ that thou shall not violate.  BSA will throw you under the bus and to LE faster then you can blink should violate it.
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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2012, 03:16:09 PM »
No, I believe the word was out that if you liked boys the RC church was the place to be. They say it goes back to the 60's. I had a "Brother" for "English in my freshman year of HS who was an absolute pedophile and I can recall what could easily be construed as times when he was grooming the whole class at once. My father had that exact same teacher. He graduated in 1956.  ;)
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MechAg94

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2012, 03:20:05 PM »
interesting
http://home.comcast.net/~rosses8/pedoph.html
A Penn State historian, Philip Jenkins, has done an in depth research of pedophilia and sexual abuse among the clergy and has come up with some rather eye opening facts.  It seems that while 1.7 percent of Catholic clergy have been guilty of pedophilia (or sexual abuse particularly of boys), a whopping TEN percent of Protestant ministers have been found guilty of pedophilia!

http://johnrussell.newsvine.com/_news/2010/04/16/4165729-insurance-reports-indicate-more-child-sex-abuse-among-protestants-than-catholic-clergy
The mainstream media has all but ignored the recent Associated Press report that the three major insurance companies for Protestant Churches in America say they typically receive 260 reports each year of minors being sexually abused by Protestant clergy, staff, or other church-related relationships.

In light of the sex abuse scandal that rocked the Catholic Church beginning five years ago, religious and victims' rights organizations have been seeking this type of data for years. It has been hard to come by since Protestant Churches are more de-centralized than the Catholic Church.

Responding to heavy media scrutiny, the Catholic Church has reported that since 1950, 13,000 "credible accusations" have been brought against Catholic clerics (about 228 per year.) The fact that this number includes all credible accusations, not just those that have involved insurance companies, and still is less than the number of cases in Protestant churches reported by just three insurance companies, should be making front page of The New York Times and the network evening news. It's not.
Without some backup, I don't believe the 10 percent number.  That is extremely high.  That link has no data whatsoever, just a couple quotes.  I assume there was mathematical gymnastics used to get to that number.  

That said, "Protestant" covers a lot of ground and a whole lot of churches and people in this country so it would not surprise me the number of reports would be higher.  I would also say that Protestants don't normally revere the "Church" as infallible or anything like that and might be less likely to let the "Church" take care of it.  However, I know I have experience only with a couple denominations.
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MechAg94

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2012, 03:25:22 PM »
Quote
"The only downside for us is if the message isn't heard and acted upon and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it," he wrote presciently.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/joe-paterno-influenced-penn-state-officials-quiet-jerry-sandusky-emails-reveal-article-1.1105285#ixzz20obDm9Zp
This quote from the article brings another question to mind:  What sort of liability is the University looking at in all this?  It seems to me that they are highly liable to lawsuits from all or any one of these victims for involving themselves and the University in a coverup.  Gutting the football program might not be a voluntary decision. 

I am sure this won't be the end of it.
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AJ Dual

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2012, 04:45:47 PM »
Without some backup, I don't believe the 10 percent number.  That is extremely high.  That link has no data whatsoever, just a couple quotes.  I assume there was mathematical gymnastics used to get to that number.  

That said, "Protestant" covers a lot of ground and a whole lot of churches and people in this country so it would not surprise me the number of reports would be higher.  I would also say that Protestants don't normally revere the "Church" as infallible or anything like that and might be less likely to let the "Church" take care of it.  However, I know I have experience only with a couple denominations.

Yes, under the most liberal of definitions, any cult that uses a cross or says something about Jesus, and isn't Catholic, and the head "prophet" or whatever he sets himself up to be, could be considered "Protestant".

Not exactly a fair metric.

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2012, 05:59:04 PM »
No idea what's going on in the Spanish speaking immigrant communities.

Storefront evangelistic Christian churches, for the most part ... and a smattering who become Episcopalians because the mass looks and sounds familiar.

I pass by a (parked) stretch Dodge passenger van every day on my way to work. The side says "Iglesia de Dios de la Nueva Jerusalen." Just one example.
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Strings

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2012, 08:38:10 PM »
If you want a really good take on the problems in the RC Church, hit Preacherman's blog. He did a 4 part piece on it, as viewed from the inside...
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AJ Dual

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2012, 12:28:22 AM »
Storefront evangelistic Christian churches, for the most part ... and a smattering who become Episcopalians because the mass looks and sounds familiar.

I pass by a (parked) stretch Dodge passenger van every day on my way to work. The side says "Iglesia de Dios de la Nueva Jerusalen." Just one example.

Then the RC Church is going to be nearly gone in America within a generation, IMO.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2012, 12:49:00 AM »
Then the RC Church is going to be nearly gone in America within a generation, IMO.

Probably not -- they'll still have the Irish.

My wife is from South America and was raised a Roman Catholic. She still considered herself to be a Roman Catholic when we were married and when she arrived here. Neither of us is a rabid church-goer type, but typically we would go to my church one Sunday a month, a Roman Catholic church that has a Spanish mass one Sunday a month, and the other two (or occasionally three) Sundays were up for grabs.

I never liked the RC priest, but my wife liked the music. Then one Sunday the padre wasn't officiating ... and a couple of days later it was revealed (in the newspaper, the RC diocese didn't tell anyone) that the good padre had been arrested for embezzling over one MILLION dollars from the parish. And what did the good padre do with that one MILLION dollars? Why, he spent it on a penthouse apartment, clothes, gifts, and a lavish lifestyle for his decades-younger GAY boyfriend across the state line.

Once that came out, my wife declared she is no longer a Roman Catholic, and we haven't been back to that church. Our adopted daughter (also Hispanic) disclaims all religions because she doesn't trust priests.

It isn't just the Roman Catholics. IMHO all the traditional denominations are in serious trouble.
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Northwoods

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2012, 01:00:49 AM »
It isn't just the Roman Catholics. IMHO all the traditional denominations are in serious trouble.

Yep.  And mostly because they've forgotten about the primacy of scripture, particularly the part about "not conforming to this world".  When you're a "Christian" church and are teaching that there's more than 1 way to The Father (that being through Jesus), or that scriptural morality is not to be taken seriously, then why would anyone bother?
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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2012, 10:38:56 AM »
A brief detour back to the OP....kinda....

As bad as the e-mails are, I don't think punishing the student body & Penn in general by  killing the athletic program is the right answer. If anything, fire the athletic dept. to the last trainer & mark them "Do Not Hire". Then hire some good ones who pass extensive background checks. Seems much fairer....
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Scout26

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2012, 01:45:27 PM »
A brief detour back to the OP....kinda....

As bad as the e-mails are, I don't think punishing the student body & Penn in general by  killing the athletic program is the right answer. If anything, fire the athletic dept. to the last trainer & mark them "Do Not Hire". Then hire some good ones who pass extensive background checks. Seems much fairer....

No.  Athletics brings in over $115 million a year to Penn State something like 37% of that is from football and football related sources (jerseys, hats, etc.)

That's what Paterno and the rest were trying to protect (mostly) was the money, all the while preaching morality.   

Hypocrites.  Shut down the whole athletic department.  Let student-athletes move to other schools without penalty.  Make Penn State pay the victims and suffer the consequences of their moral failure.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2012, 02:14:30 PM »
not "CONSEQUENCES?!"   heretic!
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Scout26

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2012, 02:20:03 PM »
Shouldn't you be driving? ;/
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2012, 02:23:00 PM »
leave at 11 pm when swmbo gets off work  12 hours of sleeping kids and wife on long drive is good
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Harold Tuttle

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2012, 03:05:56 PM »
NCAA President Mark Emmert said the "death penalty" was still on the table in regard to the punishment the NCAA will give Penn State for its handling of the Jerry Sandusky scandal.

In an interview with Tavis Smiley on PBS, Emmert said, "I've never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university and hope never to see it again. What the appropriate penalties are, if there are determinations of violations, we'll have to decide."

The NCAA is still conducting its own investigation and is waiting for Penn State's response to a report released last week summarizing the findings of a school-commissioned investigation by former FBI director Louis B. Freeh that scolded the university for not responding to reports that Sandusky sexually abused several young boys.

Only one other football program has been given the death penalty: Southern Methodist in the 1986, as a result of recruiting violations. The school was barred from competing during the 1987 season, all home games in 1988 were canceled, it was banned from bowl games and TV through 1989, it lost 55 scholarship positions over four years, the team was allowed to hire only five full-time assistant coaches instead of the typical nine and no off-campus recruiting was permitted until August 1988.

Emmert, however, put what Penn State did into a different category.

"This is completely different than an impermissible-benefits scandal like happened at SMU, or anything else we've dealt with," he said. "This was more than a football scandal, much more than a football scandal. It was that but much more. And we'll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don't know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case, because it's really an unprecedented problem .... And I don't want to take anything off the table."
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2012, 03:28:19 PM »
penn state wants to save some face?  they bite the bullet voluntarily.  self suspend their program.   it'll never happen
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

lupinus

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2012, 04:07:02 PM »
Nuke the program from orbit. Nuke it hard. Nuke it again just to be sure. The more I see, the more deserving of it they are.

As for Joe, he's looking like one of the few people in history lucky enough to die at an opportune moment.

That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Perd Hapley

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2012, 04:11:44 PM »
Nuke the program from orbit. Nuke it hard. Nuke it again just to be sure. The more I see, the more deserving of it they are.

As for Joe, he's looking like one of the few people in history lucky enough to die at an opportune moment.

I think I would have preferred to die before my reputation went in the sewer.
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2012, 04:18:16 PM »
A banner plane was orbiting the stadium today pulling "TAKE DOWN THE STATUE OR WE WILL"
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
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Lee

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2012, 04:24:31 PM »
The whole story disgusts me, but I don't think you should blow up the swimming pool because it had a few turds floating, one of them for 50 years. Drain it, clean turd residue off, bleach it, refill it, continually monitor it.  The clean up should be a thorough and painful muti-year task though.  There are too many positive aspects of athletics to let a few turds spoil it.

RevDisk

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Re: emails in sandusky case are real bad
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2012, 06:04:12 PM »
The whole story disgusts me, but I don't think you should blow up the swimming pool because it had a few turds floating, one of them for 50 years. Drain it, clean turd residue off, bleach it, refill it, continually monitor it.  The clean up should be a thorough and painful muti-year task though.  There are too many positive aspects of athletics to let a few turds spoil it.

It becomes more problematic when cover ups and perjury come into play.

Let me rephrase it this way. Would you feel the same if it was your child being molested in the shower? And the folks went out of their way to make sure more children could be molested, for 10 years? And the folks involved further endangered your child by warning the pedophile whenever it was reported? And the folks lied before a grand jury whenever they were asked if they were enabling a pedophile?

http://media.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/other/REPORT_FINAL_071212.pdf
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 06:37:09 PM by RevDisk »
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