Author Topic: CO. Movie House Attack  (Read 33926 times)

AJ Dual

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,162
  • Shoe Ballistics Inc.
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2012, 02:45:39 PM »
+100000
The people trying to blame political pundits for ..."inspiring" people like Holmes also disturb me deeply.


Further bad taste cynicism warning...

Am I the only one that's somewhat glad that partisan bickering over "who's talk or ideology might have inspired the guy" fills up the media-space so badly?  At least it's crowding out the gun-control mantra to a degree.

As to the more chilling aspects about the First Amendment, I think it was a lot worse when Clinton tried pinning OKC on Limbaugh, and since then, the Giffords shooting... it's never actually gained any traction in terms of actionable results.
I promise not to duck.

TommyGunn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,956
  • Stuck in full auto since birth.
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2012, 02:59:00 PM »
Further bad taste cynicism warning...

Am I the only one that's somewhat glad that partisan bickering over "who's talk or ideology might have inspired the guy" fills up the media-space so badly?  At least it's crowding out the gun-control mantra to a degree.

As to the more chilling aspects about the First Amendment, I think it was a lot worse when Clinton tried pinning OKC on Limbaugh, and since then, the Giffords shooting... it's never actually gained any traction in terms of actionable results.

Having to depend upon critics pondering "who's talk or ideology might have inspired the guy" crowding out talk of more gun control only makes me more cynical than I was when I posted my first post in this thread.... :'(
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,397
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2012, 03:03:29 PM »
I've been too busy to read about this today.

Do we know what kind of gas, and did he use an "assault rifle"?
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2012, 03:10:03 PM »
It sickens me.

I know the cause of the attack. The guy is a nutjob. Any sufficiently large population of people will have nutjobs who want to kill lots of people. Most will fail/be caught. Eventually one of them will succeed. The "reasons" for the attack are pointless as they all come back to "he's a nutjob". I don't care if he thought that Obama's "You didn't build that" meant that he could do whatever he wanted and someone else was responsible for it. He's a nutjob.

Furthermore, even if the left succeeded in not only banning guns but actually ridding the country of all guns, mass attacks like this would still happen. There are explosives, deadly gases, and large machinery that are more readily available than firearms now. The deadliest attack (excepting 9/11) in the United States was done with explosives. Cars can EASILY kill 10s if not 100s of people grouped together. Chlorine gas is easy to produce and killed hundreds (if not thousands) of men during WWI.

An intelligent nutjob with determination and a plan (as this nutjob appears to have been) would simply plan using another means.

So, I'd hope this would mean we can stop trying to score political points from these attacks. Given the reprehensible actions of Brian Ross and ABC, it's pretty clear that will not happen any time soon.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2012, 03:11:33 PM »
I've been too busy to read about this today.

Do we know what kind of gas, and did he use an "assault rifle"?

I've heard nothing about the gas (that one worried me, but if he wanted to kill/infect people with gas, this was a not the most efficient way to go about it.) According to reports I've read, he used an 870, a S&W AR-15, and two Glocks.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,001
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2012, 03:15:34 PM »
I've heard nothing about the gas (that one worried me, but if he wanted to kill/infect people with gas, this was a not the most efficient way to go about it.) According to reports I've read, he used an 870, a S&W AR-15, and two Glocks.

From what I've been reading, no one is focusing on the shotgun either. So far stories have said that it was his primary weapon and he then dropped it when it was empty and went for the rifle. But "AR-15" and "handguns" are so far being prominently displayed in news stories.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2012, 03:19:41 PM »
Where does a graduate or medical student come up with $3000+ for weapons, magazines, ammo plus body armor?
 ???
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2012, 03:21:17 PM »
Where does a graduate or medical student come up with $3000+ for weapons, magazines, ammo plus body armor?
 ???


Family? Student loans? I don't find this part all that unbelievable. Not every grad student is as poor as I was while in grad school.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,397
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2012, 03:34:25 PM »
Where does a graduate or medical student come up with $3000+ for weapons, magazines, ammo plus body armor?
 ???


Credit cards are a great option, when you plan on having other things to worry about for the rest of your (hopefully very short) life.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2012, 03:37:58 PM »

Credit cards are a great option, when you plan on having other things to worry about for the rest of your (hopefully very short) life.

Another good point. You can buy a lot of stuff on credit, especially when you don't need a plan for paying any of it back.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

zahc

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,797
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2012, 03:49:15 PM »
Man, I just bought a S&W AR15.

I had plenty of guns in college and gradschool, despite being relatively poor. Guns aren't all that expensive, and they can be sold easily, so it's not as bad as buying stereo equipment or something. Of all the money that I spent on hobbies pre-marriage, only the gun hobby is still actually worth anything; the rest is just down the drain.
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
--Tallpine

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,915
  • A more Elegant Monkey for a more civilized Forum.
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2012, 04:33:48 PM »
Quote
NYPD Commissioner Raymond Kelly told reporters during a news conference that Holmes had painted his hair red and said he was "The Joker," Batman's nemesis who does not appear in the latest film. Kelly said the NYPD is increasing security at movie theaters citywide as a precaution.

Who gives a *expletive deleted*ck what this dick thinks!!!!!


Quote
The guns used in the attack were purchased at two separate Gander Mountain Guns shops, one in Thornton, Colo., and another in Aurora. The remaining guns were purchased at two Bass Pro Shops in Denver, law enforcement sources told Fox News
.


Defacto registration of firearms works.

http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=22995&content=76692127&pageNum=-1

“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

Abraham Lincoln


With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.

lee n. field

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,574
  • tinpot megalomaniac, Paulbot, hardware goon
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2012, 04:54:16 PM »
I'm sure we'd all like to think we could be in a situation like this and save the day with our CCW, but a crowded theater?

 Just a day or two ago we had exactly this: the old guy with the pocket .380, driving off two armed attackers (1 pistol, 1 bat) into a panicked flight, in the crowded internet cafe, to the delight of a broad internet viewing audience.

Quote
If I were in a secure shooting position with a clean shot, maybe I'd try to save the day. Otherwise, duck and cover, and if it looks like you or your loved ones are next in line, do what you need to do and take your chances I guess. From the description of the shooting scene so far, it's hard for me to come up with some kind of action hero, save the day response.

Head down, unless he's coming for me or mine.

Quote
This is probably why I like to avoid crowded places.
In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

BlueStarLizzard

  • Queen of the Cislords
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,039
  • Oh please, nobody died last time...
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2012, 05:04:30 PM »
From what I've been reading, no one is focusing on the shotgun either. So far stories have said that it was his primary weapon and he then dropped it when it was empty and went for the rifle. But "AR-15" and "handguns" are so far being prominently displayed in news stories.

Because to average libral joe "shotgun" inspires the image of an old double barrel and people wearing tweed.

I don't thing the general public has much concept of combat shotguns, unless it has a pistol grip, and even then, they think of a Cruiser. So, if it has a stock and no pistol grip, it's going to get ignored or mislabled.

Media spin and ignorance at work, my friend.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,001
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2012, 05:44:49 PM »
Just a day or two ago we had exactly this: the old guy with the pocket .380, driving off two armed attackers (1 pistol, 1 bat) into a panicked flight, in the crowded internet cafe, to the delight of a broad internet viewing audience.

To me, the cafe didn't look that crowded and the CCW guy definitely had clear shots and a clear path. I imagine it was no different than say, a restaurant. I would likely think about pulling my pistol if this attack happened in even a crowded restaurant.

Maybe I'm imagining it wrong, but when I think "packed movie theater" I'm thinking a mass panic and jumble of at least a couple hundred people in very constricted surroundings with limited movement and exit paths.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2012, 05:46:54 PM »
I seriously wonder if all the victims were shot, or how many were injured in the ensuing panic....
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,001
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2012, 06:21:47 PM »
Wow. I'm going to give up on speculating on this for at least a couple of days. Depending on what news sources you go to:

He had two pistols on him
He had a pistol on him and one in the car
He had both pistols hidden in the theater
He fired from the theater where the movie was playing
He fired in the lobby
He had a 100 round drum magazine on the AR-15
He reloaded multiple times
He fired the shotgun in the air, then fired the rifle
He fired the shotgun into the crowd, then when it was empty, fired the rifle
His rampage had nothing to do with the Batman movie
He told police he was The Joker
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2012, 06:46:51 PM »
News for profit...gotta get the story out even if it's not true.

Have police bothered saying how many people were actually shot, or is it still just a killed and injured list?
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

lee n. field

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,574
  • tinpot megalomaniac, Paulbot, hardware goon
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2012, 06:58:23 PM »
Wow. I'm going to give up on speculating on this for at least a couple of days. Depending on what news sources you go to:

He had two pistols on him
He had a pistol on him and one in the car
He had both pistols hidden in the theater
He fired from the theater where the movie was playing
He fired in the lobby
He had a 100 round drum magazine on the AR-15
He reloaded multiple times
He fired the shotgun in the air, then fired the rifle
He fired the shotgun into the crowd, then when it was empty, fired the rifle
His rampage had nothing to do with the Batman movie
He told police he was The Joker

Busy boy.  Reminds me somewhat of the NIU shooter.
In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2012, 07:03:19 PM »
I seriously wonder if all the victims were shot, or how many were injured in the ensuing panic....

I've also heard a story that said the police were shooting. Were any of the victims due to "friendly fire"?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

MrsSmith

  • I do declare, someone needs an ass whoopin'
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,734
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2012, 07:05:40 PM »
I watched the press conference held this morning with the CO Governor, Aurora Mayor, and Aurora Chief of Police.

According to the Chief of Police (who gave out far more info in a nationally broadcast press conference than I would have), at the time they took Holmes into custody, he had the AR15 "Assault Rifle", a Remington 870 12 gauge, and 2 Glock .40 cal pistols. One of the pistols was found in his car and they didn't know (four hours ago) if he'd used it in the theater or not. I don't think it really matters at this point.

He was also unwilling to speculate on the guy's motives. He said that the first officers arrived on the scene a minute and change after the first 911 call was received and the suspect was subdued without further incident. From how he described the victims, it didn't sound like any were a result of friendly fire.

Listening to the media speculate about this all morning was a treat. "Some people were confused because they thought he was in costume. Do you think we should forbid costumes in theaters?"  (He wasn't in a batman costume.)
"Do you think we should have metal detectors at the entrances?" (He didn't go through the front door.)
"Were these weapons purchased legally? Did he have a right to have these guns?" (Yes, he did, with no criminal record. But if he hadn't had guns, he'd have used all his fancy explosives and chemicals instead and how well do ya' think that would have turned out?)

On a higher note, everyone interviewed, from some chief of police in SoCal to a business owner in Denver, when asked these questions, all stated that this was a random crime and in no way should it be cause to restrict our liberty. The Governor of CO (a democrat even), stated, "We can't allow people who are aberrations of nature to take away the freedoms we enjoy."

I can't see how the anti's can use this as an example of anything other than a good reason to be more diligent in carrying a weapon to protect yourself and your family.

As to not drawing on this idiot in a crowded theater:
-  Theaters have a fairly steep slope down from back to front to allow for a clear view from every seat in the house.
-  The emergency exit doors (what he kicked in to get into the room) are typically down in front near the screen, in other words, in full clear view, unless people are standing in chairs and such, which I highly doubt if there are bullets flying.
-  This is the perfect example of why training is critical.
No, I wouldn't have risked drawing if I were in the middle of the row and midway up the room. But someone with decent training, and with solid situational awareness enough to sit in the end seat with a clear view of exits and entrances (which we all should be doing anyway) could have taken the shot and prevented some of the tragedy.

And if carrying a weapon were the norm instead of the exception these days, most idiots would think twice about doing what he did.

America is at that awkward stage; It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. ~ Claire Wolfe

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2012, 07:09:25 PM »
Why oh why couldn't his Glock have kaboomed? :facepalm:

Quote
Another good point. You can buy a lot of stuff on credit, especially when you don't need a plan for paying any of it back.
I have to stop thinking within the paradigm of being fiscally responsible...
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2012, 08:06:19 PM »
I have to stop thinking within the paradigm of being fiscally responsible...
Yeah, when planning to go on a shooting spree there's no real motivation to be all fiscal about it
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

SADShooter

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,242
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2012, 08:40:27 PM »
Tasteless irony corrected on self-reflection-SADShooter

I wish I had something pertinent or meaningful to write, but I'm avoiding the news because the frenzied lemming-drive to burn oxygen filling airtime disgusts me. A little somber silence to mourn the dead and comfort the grieving.would be appropriate.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 08:50:02 PM by SADShooter »
"Ah, is there any wine so sweet and intoxicating as the tears of a hippie?"-Tamara, View From the Porch

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,261
Re: CO. Movie House Attack
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2012, 08:52:26 PM »
Wow. I'm going to give up on speculating on this for at least a couple of days. Depending on what news sources you go to:

He had two pistols on him
He had a pistol on him and one in the car
He had both pistols hidden in the theater
He fired from the theater where the movie was playing
He fired in the lobby
He had a 100 round drum magazine on the AR-15
He reloaded multiple times
He fired the shotgun in the air, then fired the rifle
He fired the shotgun into the crowd, then when it was empty, fired the rifle
His rampage had nothing to do with the Batman movie
He told police he was The Joker

Also:

He propped the door open
He entered through an emergency exit door
A theater-goer tried to block the door and the shooter pounded on it
He wore a gas mask
He wore a combat helmet
He threw a tear gas canister
He threw a smoke bomb
...
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design