CO. Movie House Attack

[Hawkmoon]

I've also heard a story that said the police were shooting. Were any of the victims due to "friendly fire"?

And I saw a report that some of the patrons were met at the exits by "armed guards" (note: Not "police"), who checked them for weapons before they were allowed to leave.

 

[never_retreat]

If I was there, I would likely be looking for cover versus trying to save the day. I might have my hand on or near my pistol in case the nut job gets close to where I was, but taking a shot at him form wherever? If it was as crowded as the stories indicate, you'd have just as good a chance of hitting a panicking movie-goer that ran into your line of fire just as you pulled the trigger as you would hitting the nut job. Even if you drew when he approached close to you, with panicking people surrounding you within touching distance, again, it would be hard to get a shot off, and there's the chance someone mistakes you for another bad guy and you get piled on by other people trying to save the day, or piled on by a mob running for the exit.

If I were in a secure shooting position with a clean shot, maybe I'd try to save the day. Otherwise, duck and cover, and if it looks like you or your loved ones are next in line, do what you need to do and take your chances I guess. From the description of the shooting scene so far, it's hard for me to come up with some kind of action hero, save the day response.

This is probably why I like to avoid crowded places.

If this guy is cranking off rounds and you had a shot, either great or not so great it would be worth taking.
I would not feel bad about winging someone else if I thought I could stop him and save my arz.

[Scout26]

Darkened theater, full of panicking innocents, and filling with a choking smoke.  Probably real hard, if not impossible, to find the Badguy in that situation.  Meanwhile, he can just crank off rounds in some general direction and be pretty sure of hitting someone.

I don't care how much training you have, that's a sucky tactical situation.

[Ben]

Well, latest on Fox News is the police stating he had, "6000 rounds with the ability to shoot 50 rounds a minute."

And they're saying all 6K rounds were bought on the Internet. That won't be good. Either a potential ban, or panic ammo buying because of fear of a potential ban.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I'm in the get down, stay down and only shoot back if he's coming straight at you.

A movie theater is probably the worst location to set up a person with a CCW to play hero.
Too many people, too much panick, little visibility (made worse in this case by smoke) even your hearing is going to be off.
Have you ever noticed being slightly disoriented when you get up after a long movie? I hate walking up the aisle, I get a little dizzy on the slope. I imagine that isn't improved by a madman shooting up the joint and throwing a smoke bomb.

Unless you got lucky and the guy was standing right in front of you, you would be unlikely to stop this.

[MechAg94]

Well, latest on Fox News is the police stating he had, "6000 rounds with the ability to shoot 50 rounds a minute."

And they're saying all 6K rounds were bought on the Internet. That won't be good. Either a potential ban, or panic ammo buying because of fear of a potential ban.

And I guess he was carrying all 6000 rounds in some super duper load bearing ammo vest.   

[MechAg94]

Darkened theater, full of panicking innocents, and filling with a choking smoke.  Probably real hard, if not impossible, to find the Badguy in that situation.  Meanwhile, he can just crank off rounds in some general direction and be pretty sure of hitting someone.

I don't care how much training you have, that's a sucky tactical situation.

Plus, you are likely carrying a smaller pistol that you may or may not be a great shot with past 15 or 20 yards and being a movie premier, this is not likely a small theater.  Unless you happen to be close, it is NOT the best place to start trying to pick off the guy.  Plus, my luck he would see me and (if he knew anything at all about the AR) he could pick me off across the theater with the rifle much easier than I could with a carry pistol.

[Perd Hapley]

When I google James Rhodes, this is the result that shows up most often.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Machine

Sorry, had the wrong name.

[seeker_two]

When I google James Rhodes, this is the result that shows up most often.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Machine

Maybe you should Google John Holmes instead....   

Plus, you are likely carrying a smaller pistol that you may or may not be a great shot with past 15 or 20 yards and being a movie premier, this is not likely a small theater.  Unless you happen to be close, it is NOT the best place to start trying to pick off the guy.  Plus, my luck he would see me and (if he knew anything at all about the AR) he could pick me off across the theater with the rifle much easier than I could with a carry pistol.

That will be on my next practice cycle.

[MechAg94]

That will be on my next practice cycle.

Which one?  Picking off a riflemen across a crowded theater with a pistol, or picking off a concealed carry holder with a rifle across a crowded theater?  

 

[De Selby]

If this guy is cranking off rounds and you had a shot, either great or not so great it would be worth taking.
I would not feel bad about winging someone else if I thought I could stop him and save my arz.

So basically, you risk becoming a murderer just like the psycho - that's what it would amount to under the circumstances. 

[Monkeyleg]

Yeah, De Selby. Avoid the risk of possibly hitting someone, anyone. Let the guy murder 200 people. Just don't take the chance that you might miss. 

[De Selby]

Yeah, De Selby. Avoid the risk of possibly hitting someone, anyone. Let the guy murder 200 people. Just don't take the chance that you might miss.  

Yeah, I think it's fair to observe the difference between shooting into a crowded dark theater where hitting an innocent person is an incredibly likely outcome and other possible scenarios - you are responsible for your own bullets, even when someone else is shooting.

[gunsmith]

I'm only now reading up on what happened and getting news, I always try to figure out what I would do in case of an emergency when in crowded areas. Something I learned in the BSA as a kid / always know where the emergency exits are in case of fire or other emergency/be prepared.

In this case I would be sitting near the middle of the seats at least ten rows up, I probably would have hit the floor and waited for a clear shot.

[Monkeyleg]

De Selby, you neglected to include this part of never_retreat's statement.

If this guy is cranking off rounds and you had a shot, either great or not so great it would be worth taking.

If you have a great shot or a not-so-great shot, with a good probability of hitting the suspect and low probability of hitting an innocent, why not take it? IIRC, most state laws provide some leeway regarding innocents being hit in a defensive shooting.

I'm not suggesting shooting into the crowd.

[seeker_two]

Which one?  Picking off a riflemen across a crowded theater with a pistol, or picking off a concealed carry holder with a rifle across a crowded theater?  

 

Don't make me tell BSL that it was your idea....

Actually, practicing shots at 25+yds. under stress & cover with a CCW-sized pistol. I may not be precise, but I'm sure I can make him duck.

[Perd Hapley]

So basically, you risk becoming a murderer just like the psycho - that's what it would amount to under the circumstances. 

Thanks for posting a comment dumber than mine. Takes the heat off.

[HankB]

Was watching TV last night, and one of the talking heads on the news mentioned that "they" thought the perp had taken some prescription meds a few hours before the shooting.

We'll have to keep an eye on this to see if it's in fact true, but considering how many of the previous mass shootings involved a perp who was on prescription meds, I can't help but wonder if this is another triumph of the pill-pushing quacks of modern psychiatry.

[MicroBalrog]

So basically, you risk becoming a murderer just like the psycho - that's what it would amount to under the circumstances. 

Do you understand what 'murder' actually is?

[Hawkmoon]

So basically, you risk becoming a murderer just like the psycho - that's what it would amount to under the circumstances.  

A murderer?

Seriously, this is over the top even for you. Accidently hitting or even killing a third party bystander in the act of shooting at an assailant in self defense is certainly unfortunate and regrettable, and (depending on circumstances) may even be deemed negligent homicide, but under no circumstances could it be construed as "murder."

[Lee]

Responding with gun fire is not always (or is even rarely) the best option.  As someone with a CCP, I've always worried that I would not make the smartest choice in a given situation, because I would be to focused on using my pistol, rather than doing the smartest thing.  I'm not going to pass judgement on anyone in this terrible situation, but...if several people had gone straight for this guy and knocked him off his feet, or wrapped him up, it probably would have been over at that point.

[MrsSmith]

We can debate this from here until Sunday, but what it ultimately comes down to is that it's impossible to predict how a scenario might play out in ANY situation. All you CAN control is how YOU react. Which is why training for sudden/surprise situations is more valuable than standing 30 feet from a target stand and hitting center shots all day. And why it's important to continually run through scenarios in your head over the course of your day. What would I do if?

None of us knows the exact layout of the theater, where we might have had to sit if we'd been there, the reaction of the other folks in the theater, or for many of us, what it feels like to have bullets flying past you. Arguing about it without that information is pointless.

What isn't pointless is to train. And if you have any doubt about how you might react with your weapon in high stress situations, then you need to leave it at home until you've trained sufficiently that you feel comfortable with your skill and reactions.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Responding with gun fire is not always (or is even rarely) the best option.  As someone with a CCP, I've always worried that I would not make the smartest choice in a given situation, because I would be to focused on using my pistol, rather than doing the smartest thing.  I'm not going to pass judgement on anyone in this terrible situation, but...if several people had gone straight for this guy and knocked him off his feet, or wrapped him up, it probably would have been over at that point.

quoted for truth.

I dislike the idea that even those who are unarmed are helpless. They may have less of a chance, but they are not defensless unless they let themselves be so.

Someone close enough could have used the smoke to his/her advantage, as it would limit his visability as well, and made a low tackle as he walked by.
But you HAVE got to keep a mindset of "fight to the death" for your life no matter what, or you end up either as a deer in headlights or cower and hide and hope you get passed by.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Best defense is aggresive offense

[brimic]

Whoa, looks like Brian Ross and Snuffleupagus were a little off about the *deleted*bag.
http://www.examiner.com/article/colorado-shooting-suspect-reported-to-be-former-occupy-member