Author Topic: What Happened to America's Dog?  (Read 9972 times)

roo_ster

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What Happened to America's Dog?
« on: August 15, 2012, 12:33:32 PM »
http://fairfaxcity.patch.com/articles/what-happened-to-america-s-dog

Quote
During the first half of the 20th century, Pit Bulls were the closest thing the United States had to a national dog.  They were featured on U.S. recruiting posters in World Wars I and II, prominently featured as corporate mascots and cast as the ideal family dog in television and movies.

Now the breed is demonized and battles everything from a media-driven reputation for being predators, to abuse from their owners, to legislation that seeks to outlaw their existence. How did this happen to a dog that was once America’s sweetheart?

Don't own an APBT or any sort of bully dog, but grew up around them.  I didn't learn what an horrific menace they were until the 1980s local news clips invalidated my experience nearly as much as if as a bunny with a pancake on top its head were posted in response.
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dogmush

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2012, 02:43:45 PM »
IMO Combination of factors:

1. Some breeds of dogs really are, on average, less likely to put up with crap from other creatures (Other dogs, people, whatever.)  obviously individual dogs vary, but breed traits do exist.

2. Bigger dogs do more damage when they bite.  IIRC the CDC lists Jack Russel Terriers and Yorkies as the breeds with the most reported bites, but they do very little damage when they do.

3. Large have become more popular amongs American subcultures that don't seem to understand, or care, about living with large preditors that don't neccesarily think like people.*

Pitts are at the epicenter of all three of these factors.

*No really.  I have it out with stupid dog owners all the time.  see those big pointy teeth your dogs have?  That means they eat little creatures.  It's neither cute, nor acceptable, for your dog to be aggressive or dominant.  Control the damn thing!

zxcvbob

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2012, 02:54:20 PM »
APBT is not a particularly large breed of dogs.

Any dog with a blocky head is likely to be called a "pitbull" by the news.

Cocker Spaniel is the breed that I don't trust.  They can go berserk without warning.
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grampster

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2012, 02:58:37 PM »
I totally distrust weiner dogs.
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HankB

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2012, 03:41:10 PM »
Insanity is the norm for chihuahuas. (Just be glad they don't grow to 100 lbs!)
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zahc

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2012, 03:46:52 PM »
I'm just as afraid of Chow and other breeds, some of which will bite without warning. It's stupid to focus on a particular breed.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2012, 03:52:08 PM »
.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 04:10:31 PM by fistful »
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Boomhauer

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2012, 04:01:23 PM »
I totally distrust weiner dogs.

I've got a nice scar on my index finger from an angry wienie dog. Little *expletive deleted*er loves fingers...

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AJ Dual

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2012, 04:05:29 PM »
Walking Harlow around my neighborhood, I and my wife on separate occasions have been approached by certain demographics who are intently interested in her. Some kids, not even teens yet, tried to cajole Mrs. Dual to breed her for a share of the pups. (Harlow was neutered in rescue before we even had her...)

She's not even full ABPT, some boxer or American Bull-Dog mixed in. She's too tall and slender and doesn't even have much "bully" to her physique or stance.







My kids, on the other hand, noose poles, and tranquilizer darts are SOP.

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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2012, 04:29:42 PM »
SOB! I had a long, detailed history of the breed and the politics and whatnot written up, and my browser ate it.  :mad:

I'll come back later and re write it.

Dachsands are breed to go down badger holes and get the badgers. You'd be a little mean too.
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lupinus

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2012, 05:24:37 PM »
Pits in general are great dogs. Many are some of the sweetest, best, most loyal dogs you'll ever come across.

The problem is piss poor breeding and encouraging bad behavior. When jackass hood rats and meth head rednecks breed dogs with bad traits and encourage/train bad behavior because they want a badass dog of course the damned thing is going to be aggressive and out of line with the breed standard. But with pits, properly bred and trained, it's a rarity.

Little dogs with a strong prey instinct are the ones more likely to naturally be little shits IMO.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Tallpine

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2012, 05:31:03 PM »
Insanity is the norm for chihuahuas. (Just be glad they don't grow to 100 lbs!)

We've got one that thinks she is 300 pounds  :P
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lupinus

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2012, 05:34:21 PM »
We've got one that thinks she is 300 pounds  :P
Heh. I dunno if the wifes chihuahua thinks he weighs 300 or not, but he sure as hell don't give a hoot.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

AJ Dual

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2012, 05:48:36 PM »
Pits in general are great dogs. Many are some of the sweetest, best, most loyal dogs you'll ever come across.

The problem is piss poor breeding and encouraging bad behavior. When jackass hood rats and meth head rednecks breed dogs with bad traits and encourage/train bad behavior because they want a badass dog of course the damned thing is going to be aggressive and out of line with the breed standard. But with pits, properly bred and trained, it's a rarity.

Little dogs with a strong prey instinct are the ones more likely to naturally be little shits IMO.

Amen.

Despite cajoling her to get a mixed breed rescue of some sort, my mother went and spent X thousands on a Westie instead. And "little *expletive deleted*it" describes that dog to a T.

It's run away a few times, and barks at everything with a piercing ear-shattering yap.

Of course it's "just loveable" enough that my parents will tolerate the dog for the next 15-odd years it lives.  :P
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Perd Hapley

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2012, 05:52:54 PM »

Of course it's "just loveable" enough that my parents will tolerate the dog for the next 15-odd years it lives.  :P

Personal testimony?
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roo_ster

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2012, 05:53:53 PM »
The worst dog bite I ever received was from a Pekinese.
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roo_ster

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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2012, 06:06:05 PM »
Pits in general are great dogs. Many are some of the sweetest, best, most loyal dogs you'll ever come across.

The problem is piss poor breeding and encouraging bad behavior. When jackass hood rats and meth head rednecks breed dogs with bad traits and encourage/train bad behavior because they want a badass dog of course the damned thing is going to be aggressive and out of line with the breed standard. But with pits, properly bred and trained, it's a rarity.

Little dogs with a strong prey instinct are the ones more likely to naturally be little shits IMO.

First of all, Pit Bulls don't have a real breed standard. They are not recongnized by the AKC (and CKC is a joke registry, don't get me started)

The AKC reconginises the American Staffidshire Terrior. A good Am. Staff is basically a Pit Bull with a "good head", square, broad, with a boxy muzzle, they also tend to be a bit more blocky and broad all over.
They have the same instints as those little terriors, but are often still being bred to purpose, and it's not a nice one.


Pit bulls are the breeding dregs. Your average pit is not more then a couple generations off a fighting line. Dog fighting may be illegal, but it's still out there and more commen then you think.
That temperment breeds true. These dogs are survivalist, surviving conditions that would make anyone nuts. Sensitive to surrondings, and responding to perseved threats with aggression and dominace.

You have two types of bad owners when it comes to mastif types, bullys, and pit dogs. You have the aholes who want to "make 'em mean" and the idiots who think it's just like the Labs and Retreviers, just with bad reputations because of what they look like.

It's not just looks. I'm always wary when we have a new pit come in to board. Especially, intact males. These breeds are dominate. They can and will try to dominate anyone that comes around them.
Plus, they are built to kill. Those jaws are basically terriors on steriods. Big and well muscled.
They also generally react to fear with aggression. They very much have the mindset of "a good defence is a strong offence"

They can be great pets. Loyality and strong bonds with their people are commen. A good pit or Staff only dangorous traits should be a wicked tail wag and the ability to smother the unsuspecting with kisses.

However, it's not a breed for someone who doesn't understand what they are capable of and how their minds work. Issues with dog agression are commen. Think a Jack Russel after a rat and then understand that pit types are breed to think of other dogs as the rat. Any history with abuse or bad training can compounds these aggression and dominace traits tenfold. Every so often, you'll find one in a shelter who jumps at it's own shadow and has no cofindance, but that is not a typical example.

I dislike the misleading nature of the mentality that "Pits are PERFECT, just misunderstood!" because, while they are misunderstood, they are no more "perfect" then any other breed, and unlike some breeds, REQUIRE the work, effort and control to raise them as the great pets they can be.

I absolutly loath people that "make 'em mean." But in a way, I hate the idiots more. The ones that make 'em mean generally know better them to take them to the dog park or leave them alone with children. The idiots, on the other hand, do. And it's a terrible accident waiting to happen, and the real victim is the dog and the breed.
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LadySmith

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2012, 06:06:51 PM »


This would go a long way towards redeeming the species.
One simply cannot demonize a pit bull in a tutu.  ;)
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2012, 06:12:35 PM »
the problem with pits is at the two legged end of the leash
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

AJ Dual

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2012, 06:15:29 PM »
Personal testimony?

I made it 21 years there, so yeah.  =D

However, it's not a breed for someone who doesn't understand what they are capable of and how their minds work. Issues with dog agression are commen. Think a Jack Russel after a rat and then understand that pit types are breed to think of other dogs as the rat. Any history with abuse or bad training can compounds these aggression and dominace traits tenfold. Every so often, you'll find one in a shelter who jumps at it's own shadow and has no cofindance, but that is not a typical example.

There's a lot of truth here.

Harlow is a mixed part-pit spayed female who's about 4 years old. She is extremely dog aggressive. And we have to watch her for that. Yet, she's terrified of thunder and fireworks, no matter how distant.

With people, her one flaw is being overly affectionate, jumping into laps uninvited. The newer someone is, the better she likes them. Other dogs, she wants to either fight or is only okay with them after dominating. She's good on a leash, but off leash... never. We don't allow it. She co-existed fine with other dogs in rescue, and sometimes with a friend's or family member's dog for short periods, but it's just too unpredictable, so better safe than sorry, and we only keep her around people.

I think it's partly the dog-on-dog aggressiveness of the breed, partly the jackwagons from whatever "home" she originally came from, and probably part her experiences of pack hierarchy with other dogs while she was a stray. When we got her she was covered in scars and scabs, and she had already had 6 months to heal in rescue. I can't even imagine what she looked like when she was first taken in at the TN kill shelter the rescue org got her from.

« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 06:34:11 PM by AJ Dual »
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lupinus

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2012, 06:52:09 PM »
That's all true BSL. Breed traits need to be understood for any dog someone is going to own. And there's more then enough that that I'd be very wary of taking in a pit of unknown breeding.

My point is that the bigger problem usually lie with the idiots who breed for the bad traits because they want the aggressive dog.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Jamie B

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2012, 07:12:27 PM »
I'm just as afraid of Chow and other breeds, some of which will bite without warning. It's stupid to focus on a particular breed.

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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2012, 07:22:52 PM »
Lupinus,

I think it's bigger then that. The idiot owner issue isn't just with the pit bulls. It's crossing all breeds. The pits get the rap because they are big and powerful and can kill a human.
Educating people about dogs, breed specifics and what is and is not good breeding will go a long way towards putting the bad breeders and the aholes out of business. We also need to take a more active stance on dog fighting (and the other blood sports that still are popular and out there)
Our culture has changed drastically in how we treat companion animals, and the not really for the better. We have forgotten that most of the dogs where breed for a purpose and the tendancy and tempermemts of that breeding doesn't disapear just because the job the dog was breed for has largely disappeared or isn't needed.

The other really nasty one is the smaller terriors, especially the Jack Russel and Parsons terriors. People will put these little ones, unsepervised with small children and WHAM you have a seriously injured child. Just last month a baby ended up in the hospital with life threatening injuries via a jack russel around here.

The accidents and issues you hear about on the news arn't generally the bad seed breeders. Those guys know what they're doing is illigal and keep it hidden and in the shadows.
The accidents are the people who don't understand what they have, what it's breed for and what it is capable of.

Any dog can become a dangorous entity. Any dog can be deadly under the wrong circumstances. Knowing what your dog is capable of, how his mind works and what his breed and personal history is (even if it's conjecture) is the key. They don't just magically adapt to us, we have to do the adapting. People seeing their dogs through these rose colored lenses is what is getting us in trouble.

My own dogs have issues. I love them dearly, but Pearl is not trust worthy around strangers and I do have to watch her and tell people how to react to her behavior. She's also nasty around other dogs. Graham will (and has tried and almost succeded) kill cats, and shouldn't be left alone with small children. He's snappy and he wants to heard. Hell, the only one I would trust is Southwest, who is lab/chow/shepherd, and that's not as much due to his training, as it is his consistantly mild behavior under every circumstance he's been in.

They're are a LOT of people out there who get dogs, know nothing about there dogs, fail to acknowledge the faults and tendancy of their dogs and then wail when the accident comes. This is ignorance, not bad breeding.

There are not many animals who cannot be rehabilitated. Unfortunatly, those who can are few, far between and have limitations on how many they can save.
If people were better educated about dogs, we could decrease the instances of problem dogs, dramatically.
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Tallpine

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2012, 08:23:02 PM »
Quote
Any dog can be deadly under the wrong circumstances.

You don't want to get in the way of our Golden Retriever's wagging tail  :O
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Ron

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Re: What Happened to America's Dog?
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2012, 09:36:07 PM »
I have the trifecta of doggie goofiness going on in my home.

A Jack Russell, an Eskie and a Pit Bull puppy.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.