Author Topic: Local store owner decides to arm up  (Read 3537 times)

vaskidmark

  • National Anthem Snob
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,799
  • WTF?
Local store owner decides to arm up
« on: August 21, 2012, 11:36:56 PM »
One robbery too many has moved a local store owner to decide his clerks need to be armed.

http://www.nbc12.com/story/19331070/stor

Quote
Now he is changing policies, a sign at the Cary Street market says no customer can cover their face inside the store.  He is also now requiring all employees to have a license to carry a concealed weapon.

The store is located just across the street from the VCU campus and besides having been robbed before the neighborhood itself is sketchy.  Presently there is no bullet-resistant plastic cage for the clerk to sit in.  Arming his clerks may stop future robberies or may just create a convenient source of firearms that do not go through a FFL.  Virginia law allows employees to carry concealed at work with the bosses permission without needing to have a Concealed Handgun Permit.  Given the neighborhood, it might be nice for the employees to be able to get to and from work more safely.

BUT -- who's to say they will have the mindset to use it, or the training to know how to use it appropriately and effectively.

I am so conflicted about this. [/whiney voice]

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Regolith

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,171
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2012, 12:45:35 AM »
I seem to recall that many, if not most, concealed carry laws don't require a permit for carrying on private property that you own or if you have permission from the owner. Does Virginia not have that? Because otherwise, the employees wouldn't need a permit, just the boss's ok.

N/M, didn't read your entire post.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

cambeul41

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 403
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2012, 07:32:54 AM »
How willing are his employees?

How hard is it to find good clerks who are wiling to get licences to carry?

How willing to carry will those who do get licenses be?
?It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.?
?Thomas Sowell

MrsSmith

  • I do declare, someone needs an ass whoopin'
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,734
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2012, 08:01:54 AM »
And is he going to pay for them to have proper training?
America is at that awkward stage; It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. ~ Claire Wolfe

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,694
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2012, 08:50:22 AM »
[devil's advocate]Do clerks get a pay bonus for being expected to act as armed security guards in addition to being clerks?[/devil's advocate]
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,860
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 09:23:11 AM »
Why doesn't he just put them in one of those bullet proof glass booths or something?  

I can see arming himself and allowing his employees to arm themselves if they choose.  Requiring them to be armed implies he is requiring them to use their weapon if they are robbed. 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 09:26:58 AM by MechAg94 »
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,987
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2012, 09:26:47 AM »
Requiring CHL's for his clerks can be construed as a sort of admission of workplace endangerment issues.  I suspect the store owner will be sued as a result of this requirement, after the next robbery.  Especially if the clerk is injured.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

lee n. field

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,611
  • tinpot megalomaniac, Paulbot, hardware goon
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2012, 09:44:13 AM »
Requiring CHL's for his clerks can be construed as a sort of admission of workplace endangerment issues.  I suspect the store owner will be sued as a result of this requirement, after the next robbery.  Especially if the clerk is injured.

Liability is someone does get shot? 
In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

grampster

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,455
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2012, 09:46:22 AM »
I went to the local chain where I get haircuts and noticed a sign on the door.  It said:  "The owner of this establishment is armed with a firearm.  You should consider that attempting to rob this place you will be exchanging your life in pursuit of a few dollars."
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Monkeyleg

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,589
  • Tattaglia is a pimp.
    • http://www.gunshopfinder.com
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2012, 10:40:28 AM »
I went to the local chain where I get haircuts and noticed a sign on the door.  It said:  "The owner of this establishment is armed with a firearm.  You should consider that attempting to rob this place you will be exchanging your life in pursuit of a few dollars."

It's a good thing it says that he's "armed with a firearm". If the sign hadn't clarified that, some would think he was armed with a spork.

When we lived on the north side of Milwaukee, I got to know the owner of the neighborhood convenience store. He took his employees shooting, and taught them how to use the gun(s) that were kept on a shelf below the cash register. He never said that learning to shoot was a job requirement, though. He was Pakistani, and all of the employees were relatives, so maybe lawsuits weren't a consideration.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 11:26:00 AM by Monkeyleg »

Nick1911

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,492
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2012, 11:09:30 AM »
Seems like a bad idea.  If he wants armed security he should pay for people that have the proper training, insurance and state licensure to do so.  Requiring clerks to do it is asking for a lawsuit.

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2012, 11:53:29 AM »
Free will employment is a beautiful thing.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,694
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2012, 12:07:21 PM »
Seems like a bad idea.  If he wants armed security he should pay for people that have the proper training, insurance and state licensure to do so.  Requiring clerks to do it is asking for a lawsuit.
He could assert that he doesn't want anyone working for him that's unable to pass a criminal background check, and anyone who's been issued a concealed handgun license is certified by the state as a "good guy" of record.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

GigaBuist

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,345
    • http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2012, 01:16:11 PM »
I went to the local chain where I get haircuts and noticed a sign on the door.  It said:  "The owner of this establishment is armed with a firearm.  You should consider that attempting to rob this place you will be exchanging your life in pursuit of a few dollars."

Jude's?  I like them.

Too bad they can't give out free beer anymore. :(

grampster

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,455
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2012, 02:36:15 PM »
No beer due to "government" sticking their nose in.  Nobody complained as far as I know.
Do you have a Jude's out your way?  Three of 'em around my neighborhood.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

wmenorr67

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,775
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2012, 05:56:33 PM »
Off on a small tangent but being Virginia do you have to have a license/permit to open carry?
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2012, 06:03:12 PM »
Off on a small tangent but being Virginia do you have to have a license/permit to open carry?

Nope.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

vaskidmark

  • National Anthem Snob
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,799
  • WTF?
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2012, 07:36:34 PM »
Well, color me surprized.

I had a notion that this might draw some support at least for the feelings apparently behind the decision to not put up with it any more.

It's true that all the issues of liability you point out exist, as well as a few you have so far missed.

But, dang!  Have we all turned into our parents?

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2012, 09:11:07 PM »
No beer due to "government" sticking their nose in.  Nobody complained as far as I know.
Do you have a Jude's out your way?  Three of 'em around my neighborhood.

we had, stress had, local barber shops that gave a head and neck massage as part of a cut.  some busy body complained and the city busted em
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

GigaBuist

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,345
    • http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2012, 09:40:27 PM »
No beer due to "government" sticking their nose in.  Nobody complained as far as I know.
Do you have a Jude's out your way?  Three of 'em around my neighborhood.

We've got one a few miles east of me in Standale and another 10 miles west in Allendale.  Depending on my schedule I go to one or the other.

Surprisingly, as much as I hate government and love beer, I actually agree with the AG's determination.  Giving out a beer with a haircut makes them a distributor which means they need a liquor license.  Yes, it's absurd to consider them a bar given that they charge $17 per haircut/beer but if they didn't take a hard line then somebody would just start a bar where you get to play paddy-cake with somebody for $4 and they toss in a free beer with the game.

When I was in there four weeks ago a new customer asked about the beer thing.  I hadn't thought about it in years.  That got my gears turning so I started looking into micro-brewery laws.  Interesting thing:  The state's own FAQ site gives conflicting information about selling microbrew beer at multiple locations.  One time they say its OK and in another they say its not.  I think it'd be hilarious if the people behind Jude's turn it into a microbrewery/haircut place.  Then they could legally dish out beer with a haircut... or just turn them into combo bar/haircut joints.

gunsmith

  • I forgot to get vaccinated!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,187
  • I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2012, 11:27:42 AM »
He could assert that he doesn't want anyone working for him that's unable to pass a criminal background check, and anyone who's been issued a concealed handgun license is certified by the state as a "good guy" of record.

That's what I was thinking. I had thought the same thing, if I ever own a company a requirement would be a ccw to get hired, not necessarily for self defense but a way of insuring a clean background-without paying for it your self.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2012, 01:35:20 PM »
Quote
Surprisingly, as much as I hate government and love beer, I actually agree with the AG's determination.  Giving out a beer with a haircut makes them a distributor which means they need a liquor license.


Why does anyone need a liquor licence?


[asks the son of a former tavern owner]
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2012, 02:03:58 PM »


Why does anyone need a liquor licence?


[asks the son of a former tavern owner]

Because we're the most free civilization ever!
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

lee n. field

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,611
  • tinpot megalomaniac, Paulbot, hardware goon
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2012, 02:08:40 PM »
Well, color me surprized.

I had a notion that this might draw some support at least for the feelings apparently behind the decision to not put up with it any more.

It's true that all the issues of liability you point out exist, as well as a few you have so far missed.

But, dang!  Have we all turned into our parents?

Naah.  I think we're more into doing it for ourselves, than because the boss tells us to.
In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

ArfinGreebly

  • Level Three Geek
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,236
Re: Local store owner decides to arm up
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2012, 05:19:57 PM »
This story is from the late 80s or early 90s.  It doesn't show up in the LV RJ's archives.

Friend of mine in Vegas, a dentist, ran a practice with his wife, also a dentist.  

One night she didn't come home.  She was in the habit of working late and then visiting family, so he put the kids to bed and thought no more about it until the next morning.  He woke up, and she was not home.

He didn't have long to wonder about it; one of the staff called him from the office:  his wife was sitting outside the office in her minivan with a gunshot wound to the head.  He was understandably distraught.

Among the other things he did shortly after that -- new security system, mag locks on the front door, CCTV -- was equip himself with a pistol and purchase a similar pistol for the office.  He paid for their training, instituted security policies, and made sure that at least one staffer was within easy reach of that pistol at all times.  Any new staff were also trained.

Yes, he had one girl decide she couldn't bring herself to work in that neighborhood any more (and this was in a high-traffic section of Sahara Ave), but the rest were entirely fine with arming up.

This was before I had any personal interest in firearms, but discussions with him afterward were one of the things that led to my eventual understanding that our personal safety & security is up to us.

On the one hand, he took serious precautions to secure his office and his staff.  On the other hand, more than once I got the sense that he wouldn't have minded if the murderer had come back to try it again.  No actual words, just a look and a set to his jaw.

My take-away from that, which wouldn't mature for a few years, became "don't leave your family or your staff defenseless."
"Look at it this way. If America frightens you, feel free to live somewhere else. There are plenty of other countries that don't suffer from excessive liberty. America is where the Liberty is. Liberty is not certified safe."