Author Topic: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich  (Read 5218 times)

just Warren

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2012, 01:34:57 PM »
The first was referring to prior wars, and was a joke.
The Germans DID occupy France, so a joke regarding their room and board expenses is valid, and doesn't refer to any perceived or actual military capability or the sacrifice of theirs,
The last, well, are you making the argument that the maginot line WAS effective?  And I don't mean "effective because it forces them to roll through the Ardennes and kill Belgians instead of going directly from Germany to France while not actually resulting in substantial delays of the advance because dammit, those Germans won't take armored units though woods..right?"

Not only that, I didn't refer to the British, Belgian, or Dutch at ALL.

Basically, chill out, not only has the French as a bunch of smelly flag waving surrender monkeys been around since, well, like the beginning of time, as most of European history (napoleonic wars  and various british/french "who's island is it" times notwithstanding) is basically "people from the east (usually those organized imperalistic ones with harsh consonants and extraordinarily long compound words) invade France...repeat"

As for discrediting the Wehrmacht?  Where did you pull that one out of?

It's more underestimating what they accomplished. By saying the French rolled over blinds a person to what one can learn. The Maginot line worked tactically but not strategically and they had what they thought were good reasons for building the thing.

In short the planners didn't account for the fact that the speed of war had increased. Not their fault really, it even took the Germans awhile to figure it out and only because Guderian kept pushing it. Also they thought it would be trench warfare again and a fortress is better than a trench any day. So it came down to what would they build, more armored divisions that can be ordered away or destroyed before being fully mobilized or something that couldn't? Well, they went with the giant concrete boxes.

The Germans had virtually no success in reducing the fortifications and most of them surrendered after the rest of France was lost. A section near Lyon was still fighting a week after the fall and the German commander could only get them to surrender by threatening to use his siege mortars on the city.

Now yes, the leadership was bad. It was fighting the wrong style war with mostly untrained troops and with a serious lack of material and they were a week behind from the very first day of the fight as there mobilization process was predicated on it taking the Germans 9 days to reach France through Belgium etc. and it only took three.   The tactical leadership was lacking, but then they were using an obsolete doctrine. 

So yes, the French lost. As would have the US given the same conditions because no one saw what was coming. Even the Germans were worried it wouldn't work, beating up on the Poles was one thing, France was another thing entirely. Also it took 40 days. A lot of people forget that. Even with all their handicaps it took the Germans 40 days to finally beat them.

To sum up: France gets unfairly dissed when no other army in the world at that time would have stopped the Germans.

And I am so chill you can keep a side of beef on me for a week.

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MechAg94

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2012, 04:49:13 PM »
I was thinking Patton said something similar about fighting the Germans later in the war.  He felt they spent so much effort building fortifications for defense that they would have been better off training.  He commented on huge expanses of concrete that had little purpose and large defensive structures that took a lot of time to build but only took a squad of infantry a couple hours to flank and destroy from the rear.  Of course, by that time, I think most of the crack soldiers from earlier in the war were gone.


I've heard similar comments on the Atlantic wall shore defenses.  
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just Warren

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2012, 05:19:50 PM »
Training was a serious problem.

Veterans of The Great War were exempt and there was no continuity in training units. That is when a person went to train there was no guarantee that the people he trained with last time would be with him this time. Also the training time was so short that a lot of the time they were just being kept caught up on new weapons. They got very little field time, not that that would have mattered given what was coming for them but maybe there would have been better unit cohesion and that might have delayed the Germans by a day or so.

Procurement was a shambles as well they only had half the AT mines their ToE called for and most of those didn't get set so maybe having more would have just meant more loot for Jerry to re-purpose. And they went with slower infantry tanks instead of having faster exploit-capable armor. In fact they turned down tank designs that went to fast.

Their bureaucracy let them down, but they had the system they had so that power would be spread out to prevent another Napoleon but instead they got a Hitler.
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just Warren

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2012, 05:21:39 PM »
And to bring this back form my derail.


What if this tax and the results are intended to wreck France. Who benefits?
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De Selby

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2012, 03:57:37 AM »
Also, I'm reasonably sure I read somewhere that there are ways for US citizens to legally not pay any taxes to the IRS if they move abroad.

Even dropping your citizenship doesn't work - they won't give you a lengthy return visa if you don't keep paying. 

US expat tax is even more draconian than US domestic tax.  I don't mind paying taxes- what outrages me is the lack of service for my payments.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2012, 05:06:14 AM »
The Maginot Line was never fully built to design (which is why the Germans actually pierced it at several locations), and they had failed, for political considerations, to extend it to cover the Belgian border.

The main problem was the lack of a national  will.
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seeker_two

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2012, 09:17:57 AM »
Eventually, I see most of the European wealthy moving to the more well-developed Latin American nations like Columbia or Costa Rica, where their tax rates are lower and money buys more influence.

Truth be told.....I see more American wealthy doing the same thing, eventually.....

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HankB

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2012, 10:38:16 AM »
Also, I'm reasonably sure I read somewhere that there are ways for US citizens to legally not pay any taxes to the IRS if they move abroad.

Yeah, it's called "drop your citizenship and never come back."

And forfeit any assets you may have left here, which may include pensions drawn on US companies and Social Security.
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longeyes

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2012, 12:23:28 PM »
"They" need our money.   Can't exist without it.

And they aren't going to let it go.

That applies to secession as surely as expatriation.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2012, 05:15:02 PM »
"They" need our money.   Can't exist without it.

And they aren't going to let it go.

That applies to secession as surely as expatriation.

I was listening to this guy
http://www.amazon.com/Better-Off-Without-Manifesto-Secession/dp/1451616651/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1349125948&sr=1-1&keywords=secession
being interviewed IIRC by Andrew Wilkow.
He made the argument that the only way a peaceful secession could go down is if the North kept Texas. He said it was economically unfeaseable otherwise and would certainly result in some kind of military action.  Interesting to hear a liberal talking about secession as if its a good thing for once.
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dogmush

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2012, 07:29:19 PM »
I'm not sure how Texas would feel about that. Would they settle for just Austin?

SADShooter

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2012, 07:34:35 PM »
I'm not sure how Texas would feel about that. Would they settle for just Austin?

I could get on board with that notion
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longeyes

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2012, 02:48:39 PM »
If if happens, it won't be along neat cartographic lines; that would entail a lot of difficult intra-national migration.  We may just see, as elsewhere on this planet, autonomous or semi-autonomous states or regions. 
"Domari nolo."

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Perd Hapley

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Re: France Passes the 75% Tax on their Rich
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2012, 02:55:57 PM »
Even dropping your citizenship doesn't work - they won't give you a lengthy return visa if you don't keep paying. 

US expat tax is even more draconian than US domestic tax.  I don't mind paying taxes- what outrages me is the lack of service for my payments.


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