Author Topic: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market  (Read 5352 times)

AZRedhawk44

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Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« on: October 08, 2012, 05:29:36 PM »
Wanna see Silk Road and bitcoin take off?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-right-to-resell-your-own-stuff-is-in-peril-2012-10-04?pagenumber=1

Go ahead and play the Statist card again, Roberts.  We dare you.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2012, 05:52:36 PM »
Have you read the actual court doc yet? Seriously established law.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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charby

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2012, 07:20:43 PM »
Have you read the actual court doc yet? Seriously established law.

 [popcorn]
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2012, 07:29:16 PM »
[popcorn]

Pass some of that over here, this ought to be good.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2012, 07:36:48 PM »
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2678020953327425749&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr


and this is the meat
The Second Circuit initially looked to the plain text of the Copyright Act, which states that the first sale doctrine applies only to copyrighted goods “lawfully made under this title.” The court found that “lawfully made under this title” referred only to goods manufactured in the United States. Section 602(a)(1) of the Copyright Act states that “mportation into the United States … of copies . . . of a work that have been acquired outside the United States is an infringement of the [owner’s] exclusive right to distribute copies.” The Second Circuit reasoned that applying the first sale doctrine to works made abroad would give “no force” to § 602 “in the vast majority of cases.” The court also applied the Supreme Court’s dicta from Quality King Distributors, Inc. v. L’anza Research International, Inc., 523 U.S. 135 (1998), which suggested that copies made under the law of another country are not subject to the first sale doctrine. In holding as it did, the Court went further than the Ninth Circuit in Omega S.A. v. Costco Wholesale Corp., 541 F.3d 982 (9th Cir. 2008), which found that the first sale doctrine applied to foreign-manufactured copies if that copy was imported into the United States with the copyright owner’s permission. Here, the Second Circuit included no such exception.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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charby

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2012, 07:46:04 PM »
Pass some of that over here, this ought to be good.

I'm waiting for AZredhawks rebuttal.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2012, 08:11:58 PM »
his first mistake?
Kirtsaeng claims that, before selling the textbooks, he sought advice from friends in Thailand and consulted “Google Answers,” a website which allowed web users to seek research help from other web users, to ensure that he could legally resell the foreign editions in the United States.



In the Copyright Act of 1976, Congress enacted what is now 17 U.S .C. § 602(a)(1).13 That section provides:

Importation into the United States, without the authority of the owner of copyright under this title, of copies or phonorecords of a work that have been acquired outside the United States is an infringement of the exclusive right to distribute copies or phonorecords under section 106, actionable under section 501.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2012, 08:15:14 PM »
Confronted with an utterly ambiguous text, we think it best to adopt an interpretation of § 109(a) that best comports with both § 602(a)(1) and the Supreme Court's opinion in Quality King.39

Section 602(a)(1) prohibits the importation into the United States of copyrighted works acquired abroad without the authorization of the copyright holder. This provision is obviously intended to allow copyright holders some flexibility to divide or treat differently the international and domestic markets for the particular copyrighted item. If the first sale doctrine codified in § 109(a) only applies to copyrighted copies manufactured domestically, copyright holders would still have a free hand—subject, of course, to other relevant exceptions enumerated in Title 17, such as those in §§ 107, 108, and 602(a)(3)—to control the circumstances in which copies manufactured abroad could be legally imported into the United States. On the other hand, the mandate of § 602(a)(1)—that “mportation into the United States, without the authority of the owner of copyright under [the Copyright Act], of copies ․ of a work that have been acquired outside the United States is an infringement of the [owner's] exclusive right to distribute copies”—would have no force in the vast majority of cases if the first sale doctrine was interpreted to apply to every work manufactured abroad that was either made “subject to protection under Title 17,” or “consistent with the requirements of Title 17 had Title 17 been applicable.”40 This reading of the Copyright Act militates in favor of finding that § 109(a) only applies to domestically manufactured works. While the Ninth Circuit in Omega held that § 109(a) also applies to foreign-produced works sold in the United States with the permission of the copyright holder, that holding relied on Ninth Circuit precedents not adopted by other courts of appeals. Accordingly, while perhaps a close call, we think that, in light of its necessary interplay with § 602(a)(1), § 109(a) is best interpreted as applying only to works manufactured domestically.

In adopting this view, we are comforted by the fact that our interpretation of § 109(a) is one that the Justices appear to have had in mind when deciding Quality King. There, the Court reasoned, admittedly in dicta, that § 602(a)(1) had a broader scope than § 109(a) because, at least in part, § 602(a)(1) “applies to a category of copies that are neither piratical nor ‘lawfully made under this title.’ That category encompasses copies that were ‘lawfully made’ not under the United States Copyright Act, but instead, under the law of some other country.”41 This last sentence indicates that, in the Court's view, works “lawfully made” under the laws of a foreign country—though perhaps not produced in violation of any United States laws—are not necessarily “lawfully made” insofar as that phrase is used in § 109(a) of our Copyright Act.42

Applying these principles to the facts of this case, we conclude that the District Court correctly decided that Kirtsaeng could not avail himself of the first sale doctrine codified by § 109(a) since all the books in question were manufactured outside of the United States.43 In sum, we hold that the phrase “lawfully made under this Title” in § 109(a) refers specifically and exclusively to works that are made in territories in which the Copyright Act is law, and not to foreign-manufactured works.44

We freely acknowledge that this is a particularly difficult question of statutory construction in light of the ambiguous language of § 109(a), but our holding is supported by the structure of Title 17 as well as the Supreme Court's opinion in Quality King . If we have misunderstood Congressional purpose in enacting the first sale doctrine, or if our decision leads to policy consequences that were not foreseen by Congress or which Congress now finds unpalatable, Congress is of course able to correct our judgment.

B. The District Court did not err in its instructions to the jury.

“We review jury instructions de novo, and reverse only when the charge, viewed as a whole, constitutes prejudicial error.”45 Kirtsaeng claims that the District Court erred by rejecting proposed jury instructions that acknowledged that the applicability of the first sale doctrine to foreign-produced goods was an unresolved question in the federal courts. Specifically, Kirtsaeng argues that he was prejudiced by the Court's failure to charge that the first sale doctrine was an unsettled area of law because the charge was essential to his argument that he had performed pre-sale internet research regarding the legality of his sales and therefore had not “willfully” infringed the copyrights.

It is undisputed that Kirtsaeng's counsel did not object to the final jury instructions during trial. “[F]ailure to object to a jury instruction ․ prior to the jury retiring results in a waiver of that objection.”46 Nonetheless, under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 51(d)(2), we “may consider a plain error in the instruction that has not been preserved as required [under Rule 51] if the error affects substantial rights.”

“To constitute plain error, a court's action must contravene an established rule of law.”47 Kirtsaeng does not meet his burden under this stringent standard. Although the District Court was free to permit the jury to consider the unsettled state of the law in determining whether Kirtsaeng's conduct was willful,48 we can find no binding authority for the proposition that it was required to do so.49 Furthermore, Kirtsaeng was provided ample opportunity to introduce evidence at trial and to argue to the jury that his internet research had led him to believe that his conduct was not unlawful. Accordingly, we cannot conclude that the District Court plainly erred in declining to give Kirtsaeng's proposed instruction.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2012, 08:16:22 PM »
C. The District Court did not err in allowing into evidence the amount of defendant's gross revenues.

Kirtsaeng argues that admission of evidence regarding his gross revenues prejudiced him by confusing the jury as to the amount of damages that should have been awarded to Wiley. He suggests that the majority of his revenues came from the sale of other publishers' used volumes, many of which were produced in the United States, and claims that because of the evidence of revenues that the judge permitted to be presented to the jury, he was inappropriately forced to pay high statutory damages.

To determine whether evidence of the amount of defendant's gross revenues was properly admitted, ordinarily we first determine the appropriate standard of review. As stated above, where a party does not contemporaneously object to an evidentiary ruling, that party must demonstrate that the District Court committed “plain error.”50 However, even if a proper objection was asserted in a timely fashion, we accord “considerable deference to a district court's decision to admit ․ evidence” pursuant to Federal Rule of Evidence 403(b)51 and will reverse a district court's evidentiary ruling only if it constitutes an abuse of discretion.52 When we review a district court's “judgment regarding the admissibility of a particular piece of evidence under [Federal Rule of Evidence] 403, we generally maximize its probative value and minimize its prejudicial effect.”53 Here, however, we need not reach the question of whether Kirtsaeng's counsel properly objected to the admission of evidence regarding his gross revenues because we hold that admission of the evidence by the District Court was not error or an abuse of discretion, and certainly not plain error.

At trial, the jury awarded $75,000 in statutory damages per copyrighted work for Kirtsaeng's willful infringement of eight works. Under the relevant statutory provision, 17 U.S.C. § 504(c), see note 10, ante, the jury could have awarded damages of up to $150,000 per copyrighted work. Because abundant evidence was available to support the jury's finding of willfulness, the admission of information about Kirtsaeng's revenues was not prejudicial—that is, the jury could have imposed the same amount of damages without knowledge of Kirstaeng's revenues. For example, the books in question clearly stated the following:

This book is authorized for sale [in a foreign region] only and may not be exported out of this region. Exportation from or importation of this book to another region without the Publisher's authorization, is illegal and is a violation of the Publisher's rights. The Publisher may take legal action to enforce its rights. The Publisher may recover damages and costs, including but not limited to lost profits and attorney's fees, in the event legal action is required.

In these circumstances, it does not seem anomalous or extraordinary that the jury made the findings it did, and we see no reason to conclude that the District Court's decision was improper under Rule 403(b).

CONCLUSION

To summarize, we hold that (1) the first sale doctrine does not apply to works manufactured outside of the United States; (2) the District Court did not err in declining to instruct the jury regarding the unsettled state of the first sale doctrine; and (3) the District Court did not err in admitting evidence of Kirtsaeng's gross revenues.

Accordingly, the judgment of the District Court is AFFIRMED.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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brimic

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2012, 08:16:59 PM »
*shrug*
While its a very onerous idea that one can't resell their own bought and paid for property, this will absolutely kill trade from overseas.

The free market will eventually fix this injustice.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2012, 08:43:36 PM »
Ironic  first google is no substitute for a lawyer. And his acknowledging that he looked it up proves the willfull component needed for higher award. He got too greedy.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2012, 08:56:35 PM »
Guys, i am not asserting legal position.  I am advocating technological irrelevance.

The market always gets what it wants.  In this case, students do not want to get raped on textbook prices. So a grey market vendor arises and gets a bit greedy and too big.  More will follow and through quieter channels.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2012, 09:01:15 PM »
Yup or just split up your accts
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Fitz

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 09:35:09 PM »
I buy international editions
Fitz

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2012, 09:39:03 PM »
Mr. Roberts may make his decision. Then, let him enforce it.

Unless they want to close down every yard sale, church rummage sale, thrift store, used book store and antique store...
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Fitz

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2012, 09:44:21 PM »
Easy we just need more federal law enforcement agents
Fitz

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2012, 09:58:55 PM »
Easy we just need more federal law enforcement agents


Jobs!
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2012, 10:18:27 PM »

Jobs!

So if the government prohibits secondary sales shall we call the enforcing officers Prohibition Agents?  :angel:

Perd Hapley

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2012, 10:24:02 PM »
So if the government prohibits secondary sales shall we call the enforcing officers Prohibition Agents?  :angel:

I prefer "placemen," or "swarms of officers to harass our people and eat out their substance."

At some point, if we cannot get control of Leviathan, we are going to have to make it very dangerous to work for Vichy.
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RevDisk

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2012, 11:12:47 PM »

Buying used goods is legal, so is selling. But, if they throw in DRM to stop it, you cannot legally bypass it under DMCA. But you can legally buy or sell it, just not use it. EULAs prohibiting re-sale are basically not usually enforceable.

There is some wrinkles in importing stuff copyrighted to certain areas. International textbooks, region locked DVDs, etc. Constitution technically does not apply at the borders, so most Constitutionally protected rights are void there.


When in doubt, hire a lawyer. The above is not legal advice, and worth what you paid for it.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2012, 12:59:20 AM »
Mr. Roberts may make his decision. Then, let him enforce it.

Unless they want to close down every yard sale, church rummage sale, thrift store, used book store and antique store...

It's in the works.  [tinfoil]
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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freakazoid

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2012, 07:17:16 AM »
Mr. Roberts may make his decision. Then, let him enforce it.

Unless they want to close down every yard sale, church rummage sale, thrift store, used book store and antique store...

When you hear stories of lemonade stands being shut down...  [tinfoil]
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seeker_two

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2012, 07:50:24 AM »
The free black market will eventually fix this injustice.


FIFY....just look for the guy with the cases of R-12.....

Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2012, 08:33:47 AM »
FIFY....just look for the guy with the cases of R-12.....



Ahhh... the good ole days when you could go to wallyworld and buy a case of r-12 for less than $20 and keep your car's AC going all summer no matter how bad it leaked.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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mtnbkr

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Re: Here comes a roaring, gigantic black market
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2012, 08:51:47 AM »
Ahhh... the good ole days when you could go to wallyworld and buy a case of r-12 for less than $20 and keep your car's AC going all summer no matter how bad it leaked.

If your car was made after 1996, you can do that now.  It just isn't R12.

And before you tell me the new stuff doesn't cool as well, I have two post-96 vehicles and both will freeze you out of the car with the AC on max on a 100deg day.  The older vehicle, a 15yo SUV, hasn't be recharged ever (at least not since I bought it 10 years ago).

Chris