Texas DPS uses helicopter gunner in high speed pursuit of... poachers?!?

[AZRedhawk44]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20121026/DA24VK402.html

No word in regards to the actual law broken, but:

Katherine Cesinger (SEHS'-ihn-jur) of the Texas Department of Public Safety says a DPS aircraft was helping a state game warden in a high-speed pursuit when the DPS officer on the aircraft opened fire.

 

DPS helping game and fish, including shooting fleeing vehicles?

Sorry.  Doesn't pass my sniff test.



Allow me to wax anecdotal for a moment.

About 5 years ago, I was a foolish young man (as opposed to now  ).  I was out in the desert alone, shooting at a target about 200 yards away with my Springfield M1A.  I grounded the rifle and cleared it (leaving it on my shooting mat), and walked downrange to check my target.  As I get downrange and examine my target, I turn around to look back up-range.  Some white truck pulled up next to my truck, a man got out and was walking around my equipment and inspecting it.  I had my XD9 on my hip, but 200 yards is a bad place to be when someone else can pick up your own M1A and start sending rounds at you.  I walked back to my firing point calmly but I was amped up and ready to pre-empt any attempt to touch my rifle with a drawn pistol, loud commands and shots if necessary.  Nothing overt in my behavior... but "an armed society is a polite society" and "be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."  All that jazz.

Turns out it was a forest service employee, and he was checking to see if everything was okay.  I think he was looking to write a littering ticket since this particular shooting spot tends to get trashed, but he saw I was shooting at a cardboard backer target and was policing my own brass, so the attempt was pointless.  Damned smart of him not to touch my rifle though.  At 200 yards, and the angle he parked, and the lack of lights on his truck, there was no way to tell he was a FS employee, until I was within about 50 yards.

To this day I think about how to handle that if it had gone another way, and the only thing I can think of is that police don't much care for folks that shoot other police.  However, when in the wild places in the world it is extremely dangerous to yield your control over yourself without having 100% confidence that the person in front of you is legitimate.  It's very easy to impersonate a forest service employee in the back country with minimal likelihood of being caught.  Safest way to resolve that kind of misunderstanding that results in an armed conflict with poorly identified LEO in the wild country is to get your butt to civilization very quickly, IMO.  Somewhere public, and loud, with cameras and kids and all sorts of things that discourage indiscriminate shooting.  News studio, shopping mall, something like that.



I'm wondering if the game and fish officer in this case did something that puckered the sphincter of someone out in the woods, then called in the helicopter gunner.

[charby]

Game wardens are police officers, they go to the acedemy like every other police officer. Sometimes in really rural areas the game warden might be the only police officer at the time, who knows what these folks could have been doing something else illegal and the warden came upon it and they fled.

[SADShooter]

Need more info to make a call on this one. Did the pursued fire on or attempt to run down the game officer? Most DPS troopers I've encountered are very professional. I'm disinclined to think a trooper in a helo would fire on a vehicle without a clear threat. We'll see.

[Chuck Dye]

In a more extensive article <link> it appears the pickup was loaded with illegals.  I suspect someone just blew their career and may well go to prison.

[SADShooter]

Well, hmm...

[kgbsquirrel]

I suspect someone just blew their career and may well go to prison.

I think I see some ATF assistant directors out on the white house lawn assembling something from a couple heavy wooden beams. 

[tokugawa]

Best to bring your loaded weapon with you when checking targets in an isolated place- some real dirtbags show up from time to time.

[AZRedhawk44]

Best to bring your loaded weapon with you when checking targets in an isolated place- some real dirtbags show up from time to time.

Indeed.

I no longer play "nice" when out in the desert.  I had been "trained" to leave my rifle cleared at the firing point by Appleseed, public ranges and High Power matches.  I don't do that anymore when out in the brush.

[brimic]

I'd really like to see the same level of law enforcement zealotry towards illegals crossing the border.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

you should be pleased then
http://www.themonitor.com/news/local/article_db567d9c-1f01-11e2-9e9f-001a4bcf6878.html

[AZRedhawk44]

I do want to go on record here, saying that I do not support this type of action over mere illegal immigration.

It may be that the people in the vehicle engaged in some sort of attack on the officers... and that info will come out.

But a "sharpshooter" as advertised by law enforcement mercenaries should be skilled enough to shoot an engine block rather than sending rounds relatively indiscriminately into the covered cab of a pickup truck and hitting God-knows-whom. 

A truck leaking oil out of its cylinder head, or with a rattling piston from a .223 62gr M855 round getting stuck in the guts, isn't going to move more than a few more miles. 

Suspects are innocent until proven guilty.  And police that fail to present a suspect to a court for adjudication had better have a damned good reason for it, and start from a "guilty until proven innocent" standard (as they do with their department shooting review boards after every shooting).

[birdman]

I do want to go on record here, saying that I do not support this type of action over mere illegal immigration.

It may be that the people in the vehicle engaged in some sort of attack on the officers... and that info will come out.

But a "sharpshooter" as advertised by law enforcement mercenaries should be skilled enough to shoot an engine block rather than sending rounds relatively indiscriminately into the covered cab of a pickup truck and hitting God-knows-whom. 

A truck leaking oil out of its cylinder head, or with a rattling piston from a .223 62gr M855 round getting stuck in the guts, isn't going to move more than a few more miles. 

Suspects are innocent until proven guilty.  And police that fail to present a suspect to a court for adjudication had better have a damned good reason for it, and start from a "guilty until proven innocent" standard (as they do with their department shooting review boards after every shooting).

Engine block o' truth...unless its a true AP round, the most it's going to do is crack a valve cover.

[ArfinGreebly]

Radiator.

Tires.

If you can hit the cab, you can hit one of those.

[MechAg94]

Radiator.

Tires.

If you can hit the cab, you can hit one of those.

not to mention all the other hoses and other things wrapped around engines these days. 

[MechAg94]

Indeed.

I no longer play "nice" when out in the desert.  I had been "trained" to leave my rifle cleared at the firing point by Appleseed, public ranges and High Power matches.  I don't do that anymore when out in the brush.

My dad and I learned that once.  We went down range to check targets about 100 yards away.  We looked back and a doe was running across right by our shooting stand.  Close behind the doe was a coyote chasing it.  Neither of us had anything to shoot at the coyote with.  We yelled and the coyote turned around and ran the other way.  We regretted that a bit as the Doe might have been leading it away from a fawn.

[charby]

Radiator.

Tires.

If you can hit the cab, you can hit one of those.

Let's see moving helicopter and a vehicle at high speeds. Must be Daniel Boone as the gunner then.

[Doggy Daddy]

I think I see some ATF assistant directors out on the white house lawn assembling something from a couple heavy wooden beams. 

Whoa!

I don't care who you are, burning a cross on the White House lawn is not going to go over well!

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Let's see moving helicopter and a vehicle at high speeds. Must be Daniel Boone as the gunner then.

He's a chopper gunner for God's sake. He'd better be Daniel freaking Boone. I don't want just any jackass flying around shooting his rifle out of a helicopter. The Coast Guard routinely shoot the motors out of drug boats without making the occupants look like swiss cheese.

[vaskidmark]

And in other career-advancing activity that creates public good will for the agency:

When asked if he was aware of two illegal aliens being shot by DPS in Hidalgo County, DPS Director Steven McCraw responded:

“Of course I am aware of this situation.”

He declined to comment further and directed further contact to the DPS press office. He also said he was currently out of the state.

Just how fast can a "pea cup" full of possible illegals be going that a decent pursuit coupled with setting up of roadblocks ahead cannot terminate a chase?  Somebody check that chopper to see if this http://www.stickergiant.com/illegal-alien-hunting-permit_xrg1153.html is stuck somewhere.

stay safe.

[Jamisjockey]

He's a chopper gunner for God's sake. He'd better be Daniel freaking Boone. I don't want just any jackass flying around shooting his rifle out of a helicopter. The Coast Guard routinely shoot the motors out of drug boats without making the occupants look like swiss cheese.

This. 

Indeed.

I no longer play "nice" when out in the desert.  I had been "trained" to leave my rifle cleared at the firing point by Appleseed, public ranges and High Power matches.  I don't do that anymore when out in the brush.

When I lived in SW Arizona I've had some interesting encounters with people while I've beenout  shooting.  Several times they set off the ole spidey sense. 

[Cliffh]

The local cops in the Tri-City area of the AZ mountains told us to not go into the hills unarmed.  Not that I was going to in any case, but nice to know the cops there were aware of the need.

[Mannlicher]

if the vehicle came across the border, then it was perfectly ok to stop it.  Makes no difference what agency makes the stop, makes no difference who was in the vehicle, or what.
Illegal entry and refusal to stop is more than enough reason to use force to bring it to a halt.

If you want to play, sometimes you have to pay.  Simple really.