FBI no-knock, nearly kill unarmed occupants, no reason for raid given.

[kgbsquirrel]

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/11/woman-shot-in-district-heights-during-fbi-warrant-search-82121.html

Cliff's Notes: FBI storm house at 6AM, home owner yells that no one has a gun at which point FBI agent exclaims "she has a gun!" and they proceed to open fire narrowly missing the home owner and injuring his daughter with fragments from a ricochet. No guns were ever even in the house, let alone in the hands of the 18 year old daughter.

They were never told why their home was raided.

The FBI has only said agents from the Baltimore field office were there exercising a search warrant...

So, the Feds didn't deign to give the home owner a copy of the search warrant? Double ewe tea eff, Batman.

[longeyes]

Lawsuit.  Repeat as needed.

[Fly320s]

Lawsuit.  Repeat as needed.

That doesn't affect the agents or the agency.

Firings.  Repeat as needed.

[kgbsquirrel]

That doesn't affect the agents or the agency.

Firings.  Repeat as needed.

That's still holding them to a lower standard than a "common civilian." Home invasion (until a valid warrant is produced), attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon.

Incarceration. Repeat as needed.

[zxcvbob]

Has anyone seen the alleged warrant?

[Fly320s]

That's still holding them to a lower standard than a "common civilian." Home invasion (until a valid warrant is produced), attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon.

Incarceration. Repeat as needed.

You're right. I stand corrected.

[Hawkmoon]

I hate this.

Dynamic entry warrants should be reserved for the apprehension of known criminals who are a clear and present danger to society. The fundamental premise of a search warrant is (or used to be, and should be) that you show the warrant to the occupant, he/she/they get an opportunity to determine that it's legitimate (and that it's not for a family with a similar-sounding name who live on the other side of town, or for a previous occupant who hasn't lived there for a year), then they let the nice officers enter and ... search.

No knocks and dynamic entries should NOT be allowed for searches. The Cato Institute tracks these types of events, and the number of people injured or killed as a result of botched search warrants is sobering. (That's a euphemism for "frightening," BTW.)

[kgbsquirrel]

Has anyone seen the alleged warrant?

Another iteration of the story. At the end they insinuate it's connected with a large heroin distribution bust but they never explicitly state that this particularly search warrant is directly related to it. Also in answer to your question, no I have not been able to find the warrant yet.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/20105533/swat-team-involved-in-shooting-in-district-heights

[Strings]

Aren't no-knock warrants usually sealed?

Not sure if I'm remembering that fact correctly? Chris? Anyone? Bueller?

[Sergeant Bob]

That's still holding them to a lower standard than a "common civilian." Home invasion (until a valid warrant is produced), attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon.

Incarceration. Repeat as needed.

This right here.

[RevDisk]

Ah, assuming you're actually there, do you have to open the door for them if they don't produce a warrant?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

warrants don't have to say why. just what

[HankB]

Ah, assuming you're actually there, do you have to open the door for them if they don't produce a warrant?

I don't think anyone made any attempt to show the Branch Davidians a warrant.

On the other hand, decades ago when I was a kid in Chicago, I saw a TV report where reporters went along on a police drug raid. It didn't go so well - cops knocked on the door, shouted a bit, and then went after the door with sledgehammers. (This was before the purpose-made battering rams.)

The sledgehammers bounced off the door. Repeatedly.

In due course, a small, speakeasy-type window opened up and the occupant demanded to know who was pounding on his door. Police demanded he open up RIGHT NOW.

Guy refused - said word to the effect of "You gots ta have a warrant! Ah don't has ta open lessin you shows me a warrant!"

More shouting, eventually they found the paperwork. Occupant made them hold it up to the window so he could read it, whereupon he opened the door - which was very heavily reinforced.

IIRC, they didn't find any drugs. They were contemplating arrests anyhow for not opening the door promptly, but the guy said "Ah opened it as soon as Ah knew youse had a warrant!"

This is probably why the police hardly ever invite the press along on these things any more.

[Tallpine]

That doesn't affect the agents or the agency.

Firings.  Repeat as needed.

Great pun there, which I will avoid 

[vaskidmark]

In due course, a small, speakeasy-type window opened up and the occupant demanded to know who was pounding on his door. Police demanded he open up RIGHT NOW.

Guy refused - said word to the effect of "You gots ta have a warrant! Ah don't has ta open lessin you shows me a warrant!"

More shouting, eventually they found the paperwork. Occupant made them hold it up to the window so he could read it, whereupon he opened the door - which was very heavily reinforced.

IIRC, they didn't find any drugs. They were contemplating arrests anyhow for not opening the door promptly, but the guy said "Ah opened it as soon as Ah knew youse had a warrant!"

This.

A well-respected attorney here in Va opines that no-knock warrants are violations of the state constitution.

He has not taken a case to court under that notion.  I do not know if it is because nobody has hired him to do so.

stay safe.

[seeker_two]

Just finished reading ENEMIES FOREIGN & DOMESTIC.....didn't realize it was reclassified as nonfiction.....

[Fly320s]

Great pun there, which I will avoid 

Freudian slip. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[longeyes]

That's still holding them to a lower standard than a "common civilian." Home invasion (until a valid warrant is produced), attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon.

Incarceration. Repeat as needed.

I didn't mean stop with lawsuits.  All of this is right.  We need to fight back.

[RoadKingLarry]

While I'm not advocating for it I'm surprised that we don't see more examples of the Killdozer.
Abuse a person long enough and take away everything they value eventually they will either implode or explode.

http://www.damninteresting.com/the-wrath-of-the-killdozer/

[kgbsquirrel]

While I'm not advocating for it I'm surprised that we don't see more examples of the Killdozer.
Abuse a person long enough and take away everything they value eventually they will either implode or explode.

http://www.damninteresting.com/the-wrath-of-the-killdozer/

I've mused about this with my friends often. I suspect there are plenty (perhaps a few thousand) of folks at that breaking point but the convergence of that mental state along with the material resources, the knowledge to put it all together and the motivation to do so is rather rare.

[Ron]

and it isn't very effective in actually changing anything.

[seeker_two]

While I'm not advocating for it I'm surprised that we don't see more examples of the Killdozer.
Abuse a person long enough and take away everything they value eventually they will either implode or explode.

http://www.damninteresting.com/the-wrath-of-the-killdozer/

Who needs killdozer when all you need is diesel, fertilizer, and a little patience in accumulating those items?.....

[Ron]

Also ineffective in producing change. Unless more government regulation and attention on those who love liberty all the while smearing them as domestic terrorists is the goal.

[zxcvbob]

I don't think the "watering the tree of liberty" thing includes the blood of the tyrants' families, acquaintances, other people occupying the same office building, etc.  (kind of rules out the use of explosives unless you are very very good with them)

Also to affect any meaningful change you need the support of the people.  McVeigh is not a folk hero.  The men who took up arms against a corrupt sheriff in Athen, TN are. (1947 I think)

[RoadKingLarry]

and it isn't very effective in actually changing anything.

Sometimes it isn't about change, it's about revenge.