Federal Employee NIMBYism

[AZRedhawk44]

http://nationaljournal.com/congress-legacy/federal-workers-to-congress-leave-us-out-of-deficit-deal-20121120

Not in my backyard!

Not from my paycheck!

Not my job!


Yawn.  Whatever.

Boeing engineers don't get to say that.  IT geeks don't get to say that.  Car salesmen don't get to say that. 

According to the coalition, federal employees have funded $60 billion in budget savings in 2011 and 2012 as a result of their ongoing pay freeze and an additional $28 billion in savings will be derived from the freeze extension through March 2013.

Federal workers also contributed $15 billion toward the budget in 2011 when the contribution rate toward retirement pensions was raised to 2.3 percent for new employees.

So... Federal workers only account for $60 + $28 + 15 = $103 billion of the 2011, 2012 and 2013 budget overrun?

Pray tell, what capital expenditures (since it isn't the holiest-of-holies Federal Employee budget ) account for the remaining annual $1.2 trillion (of $1.3 trillion total annual deficit as of 2011... and granting that the "sacrifices" of these employees can be applied in sum to only 1 year's deficit rather than 2-3 years as is reality) deficit?

The government buys "stuff" and "labor."  That's it.

Did we buy $1.2 trillion too much "stuff?"  Or employ $1.2 trillion too much labor?

Reality sucks.  Reality is layoffs, just like Boeing, Lockheed, seasonal agricultural employers, or Christmas season retail sales jobs.

[vaskidmark]

Government employment is a trade-off of pay for benefits and longevity.

Well, it was until someone noticed that the bottom of the barrel was getting mighty thin what with all the scraping going on.

As fiscally meaningless as it might be, why has Congress not imposed a pay freeze on itself?

stay safe.

[Boomhauer]

RIF bitches! Needs to happen ASAP.

Government employment is a trade-off of pay for benefits and longevity.

Lolwut? Fed .gov workers get paid plenty well, don't let anyone tell you different. So they get all three, a goodly amount of money, good benefits, and good job security. Although if you are an honest person, you do trade your soul for employment as a fed .gov worker.

[AZRedhawk44]

I also re-read my quoted section above:

According to the coalition, federal employees have funded $60 billion in budget savings in 2011 and 2012 as a result of their ongoing pay freeze and an additional $28 billion in savings will be derived from the freeze extension through March 2013.

Federal workers also contributed $15 billion toward the budget in 2011 when the contribution rate toward retirement pensions was raised to 2.3 percent for new employees.

That's some new math to come up with $103 billion in 3 separate fiscal years, on top of all that.

Budget freezes don't cut annual deficits.  Budget CUTS will cut annual deficits.

I gave them way too much credit.  They wanted a $1.4 trillion deficit in 2011, but were kind enough to make it only $1.3 trillion.  How nice of them.

[longeyes]

Have you looked at their salaries lately?

[kgbsquirrel]

Can it really be called paying for labor when you're paying some people to do nothing? Then again, certain programs do incentivize "procreation" so could that be classified as subsidizing prostitution? 

[Azrael256]

No, you have to work for the UN to do that.

[HankB]

http://nationaljournal.com/congress-legacy/federal-workers-to-congress-leave-us-out-of-deficit-deal-20121120
 . . .  Did we buy $1.2 trillion too much "stuff?"  Or employ $1.2 trillion too much labor? . . .

The government's welfare programs - NOT including Social Security - now run over $1 trillion dollars a year.  http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2012/10/welfare-is-at-an-all-time-high

Make-work programs (like the old WPA) though inefficient and wasteful, still leave behind useful things like roads, bridges, and sidewalks. For all the good welfare spending does, we might as well be flushing truckloads of greenbacks down the sewer, or piling them on a bonfire.

[longeyes]

They won't mind raising taxes to keep their game going.

I suggest this: a surtax--maybe 25 per cent--on all government workers.  It's only "fair."

[MillCreek]

The government's welfare programs - NOT including Social Security - now run over $1 trillion dollars a year.  http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2012/10/welfare-is-at-an-all-time-high

Make-work programs (like the old WPA) though inefficient and wasteful, still leave behind useful things like roads, bridges, and sidewalks. For all the good welfare spending does, we might as well be flushing truckloads of greenbacks down the sewer, or piling them on a bonfire.

I have long wished for a return of the WPA and/or the CCC from the 1930's.  There is enough backlog of work in the National Forests, National Parks and other recreation areas to keep thousands of people busy for a long time.  Way better to do this then sit on your butt all day doing Facebook.

PS: I am especially thinking of this because of an article in the morning paper about a road into the Cascades finally being approved to be rebuilt and reopened after being closed for almost ten years due to storm damage.  Budget cuts have prevented the work until now.  Every spring, there is considerable storm damage to our forest recreational infrastructure that has to be repaired. 

[makattak]

I have long wished for a return of the WPA and/or the CCC from the 1930's.   There is enough backlog of work in the National Forests, National Parks and other recreation areas to keep thousands of people busy for a long time.  Way better to do this then sit on your butt all day doing Facebook.

PS: I am especially thinking of this because of an article in the morning paper about a road into the Cascades finally being approved to be rebuilt and reopened after being closed for almost ten years due to storm damage.  Budget cuts have prevented the work until now.  Every spring, there is considerable storm damage to our forest recreational infrastructure that has to be repaired. 

I don't.

But, as has been pointed out, if we're going to just waste money, I'd prefer to use it inefficiently on infrastructure projects rather than just flushing it. Inefficient spending >>> useless spending.

[Boomhauer]

I have long wished for a return of the WPA and/or the CCC from the 1930's.  There is enough backlog of work in the National Forests, National Parks and other recreation areas to keep thousands of people busy for a long time

Hell *expletive deleted*ing no. We still have a (much smaller) version of the CCC. The people in the program do nothing at all when they are "working". It's total bullshit. Trust me, I know this stuff cold, I've got 6 years in this field. What really needs to happen to solve issues with such agencies is a total remodeling of the agency attitudes and such. It is certainly not a lack of personnell or funding like many in the agencies claim it is...

[MillCreek]

Hell *expletive deleted* no. We still have a (much smaller) version of the CCC. The people in the program do nothing at all when they are "working". It's total bullshit. Trust me, I know this stuff cold, I've got 6 years in this field. What really needs to happen to solve issues with such agencies is a total remodeling of the agency attitudes and such. It is certainly not a lack of personnell or funding like many in the agencies claim it is...

We do?  What is the agency called? 

[Boomhauer]

We do?  What is the agency called? 

Youth Conservation Corps. Program, not an agency. Takes people in the same young men (and now women, of course) catagory as the YCC and is supposed to put them to work doing basic cleanup, trails maintence, improvements, and so on.

Unfortunately, because it is NOT administered by military officers who enforce discipline, the jackwagons do nothing.

Same goes for "park volunteers". In many cases, again, they do nothing but sure put on a good show.

[lupinus]

They just need to put you in charge of their activities when they're at your park 

[Jamisjockey]

I have long wished for a return of the WPA and/or the CCC from the 1930's.  There is enough backlog of work in the National Forests, National Parks and other recreation areas to keep thousands of people busy for a long time.  Way better to do this then sit on your butt all day doing Facebook.

PS: I am especially thinking of this because of an article in the morning paper about a road into the Cascades finally being approved to be rebuilt and reopened after being closed for almost ten years due to storm damage.  Budget cuts have prevented the work until now.  Every spring, there is considerable storm damage to our forest recreational infrastructure that has to be repaired.

Why not revert those lands to the states and disband the USDA, BLM and USFS?

[lupinus]

Why not revert those lands to the states and disband the USDA, BLM and USFS?

Because it would make to much sense

[Boomhauer]

Why not revert those lands to the states and disband the USDA, BLM and USFS?

Most states if not all have something along the lines of a state parks or forest service type agencies. My state does, and my agency manages 47 parks and 5 or so welcome centers. We could easily absorb the seven national parks and two national forests that are here.

And as bad as my agency is, it is far more fiscally responsible than our federal equivalents.

[Boomhauer]

They just need to put you in charge of their activities when they're at your park 

Chain gang time! Seriously we have inmates that come out and do more and better work than the YCC types.

[lupinus]

Most states if not all have something along the lines of a state parks or forest service type agencies. My state does, and my agency manages 47 parks and 5 or so welcome centers. We could easily absorb the seven national parks and two national forests that are here.

And as bad as my agency is, it is far more fiscally responsible than our federal equivalents.

And that is one of the real hearts of the matter. Most states have duplication of a lot of federal agencies that, with a little expansion perhaps, could easily absorb a big majority of what the feds do.

[Tallpine]

Why not revert those lands to the states and disband the USDA, BLM and USFS?

Works for me 

I'm pretty sure that a western state like Montana could pretty well finance the state budget just on revenue from all those lands if managed properly for sustainable yields.

The USFS used to make a 90+% profit on timber, mining, grazing, etc 

[wmenorr67]

Why should a federal workers have a union to represent them?

[Strings]

Even FDR thought that public service workers' unions were a bad idea...