Why is "stand your ground" so hard to understand? (Better now, spelling gods??)

[T.O.M.]

Another black teen shot by a white man in Florida:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/30/shooting-florida-17-year-old-at-gas-station-draws-comparisons-to-trayvon-martin/

And again calls to revisit "stand your ground."  What kills me is that, like the Treyvon Martin shooting, this one seems to have very little to do with the actual law.  yet, the reporters are all over it as an example of "stand your ground."  Here, the shooter says someone in the other vehicle produced a shotgun.  Even without "stand your ground," if this was true, the shooting would be justified.  I don't know of any law which requires a person to make an attempt to flee from an actual threat from a deadly weapon before responding in self-defense with similar deadly force.  

What I love here is that the Fox reporter describes "stand your ground" as  a law "which allows people to use deadly force if they believe their life is in imminent danger."  No, it removes the requirement that a person flee from the danger if at all possible before a responding use of dealy force will be deemed legally justified.  the Reuters reporter describes the law like this: "The law gives legal protection to anyone, anywhere, to use deadly force in a case where a person is attacked and believes his life or safety is in danger."  The CNN reporter says that the "stand your ground" law "allows the use of deadly force when a person perceives a threat to safety."

I guess it shouldn't surprise me that the press is pushing its adgenda by misleading people as to what the law actually says, and most people will never take the time to research it.  Heck, even the Wikipedia article on "Stand your ground" gets it right, but no one wants to confuse the spin with reality.





 

[Tallpine]

Pretty hard to out-run a shotgun blast 

[De Selby]

Some pretty good commentary on the law here:http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1233133.ece

My view is that they fixed something which wasn't broken. 

[Monkeyleg]

I know that at one time, anti-gun groups sent faxes to reporters at newspapers nationwide with explanations about laws, "assault weapons", etc. They were giving reporters "fact sheets" that were nothing more than the anti's propaganda, but many reporters used these sheets as reference.

It sounds like this reporter is getting his/her understanding of the stand your ground laws from an anti gun group. That, or the reporter is deliberately lying.

[longeyes]

Standing your ground raises the question of standing your ground against whom?  And there the liberal mind begins to fog up protectively...  Better to just lie down and die.

[brimic]

This stuff is not surprising considering how dumb a good portion of our population is...

This morning, I overheard an idiot coworker telling another coworker that its "ok to shoot someone on your property, but its better to drag them in your garage and finish them off and put an 'unregistered handgun' in their hands because cops like it when you shoot criminals and appreciate it when you make an easy case for them."
He turned to me and said "right Brian?"
I replied "If by 'easy case' you mean 30 years of butt rape ahead of you, then yeah, go for it."

[longeyes]

Stand Your Ground cannot be separated from race and ethny, sorry.  The reality of "disparate impact," when it comes to crime stats, is lurking inside the so-called debate.

[SADShooter]

This stuff is not surprising considering how dumb a good portion of our population is...

This morning, I overheard an idiot coworker telling another coworker that its "ok to shoot someone on your property, but its better to drag them in your garage and finish them off and put an 'unregistered handgun' in their hands because cops like it when you shoot criminals and appreciate it when you make an easy case for them."
He turned to me and said "right Brian?"
I replied "If by 'easy case' you mean 30 years of butt rape ahead of you, then yeah, go for it."

I've had several conversations recently, in which the other party seems convinced that a license or permit is required to simply own, sell or purchase a firearm. I know that in some states this is regrettably true, but I'm talking about Texas and its longtime residents. Too many people have been indoctrinated to these ideas by the media, fictional TV shows/movies, and anti-gun advocates' propaganda, or are simply ignorant of firearms laws.

[Jamisjockey]

I've had several conversations recently, in which the other party seems convinced that a license or permit is required to simply own, sell or purchase a firearm. I know that in some states this is regrettably true, but I'm talking about Texas and its longtime residents. Too many people have been indoctrinated to these ideas by the media, fictional TV shows/movies, and anti-gun advocates' propaganda, or are simply ignorant of firearms laws.

Truth.
I'm on a fishing board that sees a lot of traffic and the gun stuff that gets posted on there makes me 

This stuff is not surprising considering how dumb a good portion of our population is...

This morning, I overheard an idiot coworker telling another coworker that its "ok to shoot someone on your property, but its better to drag them in your garage and finish them off and put an 'unregistered handgun' in their hands because cops like it when you shoot criminals and appreciate it when you make an easy case for them."
He turned to me and said "right Brian?"
I replied "If by 'easy case' you mean 30 years of butt rape ahead of you, then yeah, go for it."

 

[charby]

what is a groud?

[TommyGunn]

what is a groud?

It is the word "ground" sans the letter "n."   

[SADShooter]

what is a groud?

A heavily-accented pronunciation for that stuff holding your bathroom tile together. Fighting that mold & mildew is a constant battle, hence "stand your groud."

[longeyes]

The whole thing's a farce.  We are expected to just take beat-downs, folks.  If you don't believe me, ask liberals and minorities.  This is the underlying cultural mindset.  We can dance around this ugliness as long as we want, but some people are no longer entitled to legitimate self-defense.

***

Stand Your Ground upsets people because, bluntly, it is long, long, LONG overdue.

[Balog]

The whole thing's a farce.  We are expected to just take beat-downs, folks.  If you don't believe me, ask liberals and minorities.  This is the underlying cultural mindset.  We can dance around this ugliness as long as we want, but some people are no longer entitled to legitimate self-defense.

***

Stand Your Ground upsets people because, bluntly, it is long, long, LONG overdue.

I'll alert my conservative minority friends (and wife) that they all want whitey to be unable to defend himself. 

[Ron]

I'll alert my conservative minority friends (and wife) that they all want whitey to be unable to defend himself. 

Nobody here thinks he is talking about Condi Rice, Thomas Sowell or Alan Keyes.

If one were to offer you 50 bucks for a correct answer I bet you could accurately articulate who he is talking about though.

[Balog]

Nobody here thinks he is talking about Condi Rice, Thomas Sowell or Alan Keyes.

If one were to offer you 50 bucks for a correct answer I bet you could accurately articulate who he is talking about though.

Do you not see how saying "Minorities want X" might be offensive to the ones who don't want that? It's bulls###, in the same way as saying "All Christians hate gays" because of Westboro Baptist. Or are you really defending broad brush caricatures all non whites?

[longeyes]

I'll alert my conservative minority friends (and wife) that they all want whitey to be unable to defend himself. 

Your conservative minority friends have not replaced their intellects with race-consciousness, I'll bet.  You know I am not referring to all minorities, nor am I really referring to race per se, but rather to the cultural and class mindset that has made DNA the essential prism of political gamesmanship.  Unfortunately, when we get down to the street level it starts to get ugly fast, not an issue of intellectual or legal niceties but of blood and bone and trauma.  I would have thought that the Zimmerman case would have made clear to you the willful misunderstandings at work in any liberal analysis of "Stand Your Ground" as a doctrine.  What it comes down to, like it or not, is that for this crowd non-whites are expected to suffer assault rather than defend themselves adequately, even if life or severe bodily injury is threatened.  Most of the people offering opinions on this matter, I dare say, have never really been mugged, by anyone of any race, but feel all too comfortable in moralizing.

[longeyes]

Do you not see how saying "Minorities want X" might be offensive to the ones who don't want that? It's bulls###, in the same way as saying "All Christians hate gays" because of Westboro Baptist. Or are you really defending broad brush caricatures all non whites?

What's bull**** is trying to tar me, as you have before, as a racist for telling you what the Zimmerman case masks, and what that is is a disproportionate amount of non-white on white crime that the media sweat to conceal.  It's not about "All Minorities Want X," but frankly I am tired of being told how evil white people are when so much vicious brutality is suppressed every day.  Read the police blotters, my friend, and tell your conservative minority friends to read them too.  I don't create the culture, I just observe it.

[Ron]

Do you not see how saying "Minorities want X" might be offensive to the ones who don't want that? It's bulls###, in the same way as saying "All Christians hate gays" because of Westboro Baptist. Or are you really defending broad brush caricatures all non whites?

I would think from my post above it is obvious I'm not supporting broad brush caricatures. On the other hand we are stopped from discussing "minority" issues honestly for fear of being accused of being racist or xenophobic.

There is racial animus and dislike if not hatred of the other going on and it isn't coming from the libertarian/right side of the equation.

[longeyes]

I'll alert my conservative minority friends (and wife) that they all want whitey to be unable to defend himself. 

We don't need to generalize.  All we need to do is look coldly at the actual crime statistics, as they are.

[Ron]

I'll alert my conservative minority friends (and wife) that they all want whitey to be unable to defend himself. 

The only person conflating your wife and friends with the enemies of liberty he is referencing is you.

Our right of self defense is attacked regularly based on crime statistics that are skewed by inner city gang warfare.

Be interesting to see the crime statistics for the country sans the large urban centers that are besieged with gang warfare.

The events of this current year in Chicago are being used as justification to erode my gun rights. Inner city minority gang crime is being used to justify my loss of liberty. If I as a middle aged white guy in polite company point that fact out I am derided just like has happened in this thread. If I offer freedom based solutions to the inner city blight I am derided as a cold hearted sob conservative who wants minority children to go without food and a decent education.

It's a no win.   

[longeyes]

The only person conflating your wife and friends with the enemies of liberty he is referencing is you.

Our right of self defense is attacked regularly based on crime statistics that are skewed by inner city gang warfare.

Be interesting to see the crime statistics for the country sans the large urban centers that are besieged with gang warfare.

The events of this current year in Chicago are being used as justification to erode my gun rights. Inner city minority gang crime is being used to justify my loss of liberty. If I as a middle aged white guy in polite company point that fact out I am derided just like has happened in this thread. If I offer freedom based solutions to the inner city blight I am derided as a cold hearted sob conservative who wants minority children to go without food and a decent education.

It's a no win.   

This.

[Balog]

Maybe the reason folks keep calling us racist is because we keep making racist statements and then saying "Oh, you know what I really meant."

Yeah, I get that the left uses the race card to suppress dissent. That doesn't give us the right to make their slanders accurate. No matter how you really meant it in your heart. 

[longeyes]

Stand your ground is analogous to going over the cliff. No one wants to talk about the underlying reality of it all.  We are not supposed to ask what is really going on, we are just supposed to take it.  In the first case it is inner-city crime and violence.  In the latter is it is inner-city government dependency.

Yes, I plan to stand my ground, on both fronts.

[Balog]

The only person conflating your wife and friends with the enemies of liberty he is referencing is you.

Our right of self defense is attacked regularly based on crime statistics that are skewed by inner city gang warfare.

Be interesting to see the crime statistics for the country sans the large urban centers that are besieged with gang warfare.

The events of this current year in Chicago are being used as justification to erode my gun rights. Inner city minority gang crime is being used to justify my loss of liberty. If I as a middle aged white guy in polite company point that fact out I am derided just like has happened in this thread. If I offer freedom based solutions to the inner city blight I am derided as a cold hearted sob conservative who wants minority children to go without food and a decent education.

It's a no win.   

No offense, but you're just blatantly wrong here. Read what he wrote, not what you want to interpolate that as.