LAPD cop gone rogue?

[French G.]

Emotionally unstable, yet reasonably intellegent person is repeatly subject to abuse, racial slurs and curruption, in what is already a high stress job, and then is given the boot for grivances he feels is justified?

LAPD created their own monster, and now, they get to deal with it under the national spotlight.

I am not going to feel sorry for them. I do feel bad for the general populance for being stuck in the cross fire.

If you haven't been in the military chances are you have not dealt with a wonderful sub-species of human who has delusions of grandeur, no chance of adequacy, and manages to find a bogeyman around every corner to blame for their failures. The military attracts them like a bug light and then gives them a visible and structured system to work. The less shooting your unit faces, the more you get. Or as Wile Coyote would put it shitbirdus americanus.

And I'll step off the tidal surge of cop hate, I don't like them, don't like California, but chances are he is going to hurt and kill people that are doing nothing more than collecting a paycheck and did nothing to him. So *golfclap* for not being the "random" shooter who kills a bunch of kids for no reason, but he has cast his target net a little wide. This guy is no folk hero and any decent person ought to be happy to help him with his suicide. I'll reserve my ire and hopes for long prison time for cops that hose random trucks. Won't hold my breath though.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I love how anyone who points out this whole ordeal might be in some ways the LAPD's fault is assumed to be supportive of a murdering nutbag.

[RocketMan]

I think folks are ascribing too much in the way of skills to a man that they are also deriding as a looney tune.  My money is on someone eventually finding him dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound within a few miles of his burned out truck.

[just Warren]

The whole trying to jack a boat, failing because of a tangled rope than running away does not lead me to believe that this burned out truck is part of some well-thought out stratagem.

He was a failure at everything else he tried so, logically, he'll be a failure here. In the grand sense, anyway.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I think folks are ascribing too much in the way of skills to a man that they are also deriding as a looney tune.  My money is on someone eventually finding him dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound within a few miles of his burned out truck.

Loonytunes arn't always dumb.

In fact, it's the middle road ones you have to watch out for.

Smart enough to figure some stuff out, crazy enough to do the inpredictible.

Besides, this guy seems to be sucide by cop material.

[KD5NRH]

I keep thinking of Clint Eastwood's The Gauntlet, where the trigger-happy boys in blue will do anything to kill him before the truth sees daylight.  

Collateral damage of two newspaper delivery ladies notwithstanding...  

LAPD Chief Charlie Beck commented on the incident at a Thursday press conference, saying: "Tragically, we believe this is a case of mistaken identity."

WTF?


I mean, really, WTF?


Are they thinking the paper ladies might merge and peel off their fake hispanic skin to reveal that they're really one large black man?

"To the credit of the officers involved, after the shooting they acted professionally when they realized what happened."

Gee, do drunk drivers ever get any credit for doing the right thing after they cause injury to innocents?

[French G.]

I love how anyone who points out this whole ordeal might be in some ways the LAPD's fault is assumed to be supportive of a murdering nutbag.

There is a pretty strong undercurrent on here of cheering for the cop killer. I have zero doubt that LAPD is FUBAR but... How exactly is this guy's way of handling it different from an Obama drone strike? No rules, no oversight, no evidence, just a whackjob with a lethal weapon killing everyone except those truly responsible.

[KD5NRH]

How exactly is this guy's way of handling it different from an Obama drone strike?

Dorner doesn't claim divine mandate.

[BlueStarLizzard]

There is a pretty strong undercurrent on here of cheering for the cop killer. I have zero doubt that LAPD is FUBAR but... How exactly is this guy's way of handling it different from an Obama drone strike? No rules, no oversight, no evidence, just a whackjob with a lethal weapon killing everyone except those truly responsible.

Cheering? Or acknowledging the fact that they (the LAPD as a whole) had a hand in this and now are learning the hard way (and with innocents getting caught in the crossfire by both sides) why they need to make a better accounting for what goes on behind that "blue line"?

I want to know how much of this is "dude randomly went nuts" and how much of this was exasperated by people who ought to know better.
They gave this guy a badge and gun and put him on the streets. Who else are they giving a badge and a gun, putting on the streets and not getting caught/thrown out?

Acknowledgeing that there is a certain sick karma involved is not "cheering on a cop killer".

Chickens come home to roost, and the fact that it has escalated to this degree is not acceptable.

[Boomhauer]

(the LAPD as a whole) had a hand in this

Hold the phone.

Dorner and Dorner ALONE is at the making of this. Personal responsibility, 100% right there lies with him. Additionally, his core issue is that he will not accept personal responsibility for his screwups in the past and prefers to blame it on everyone else and in his twisted little mind, that makes it A-OK to declare war on society. The LAPD did discover he had issues and rightfully terminated him.

Given that he is a proven liar and a murderer, everything he claims in his manifesto is suspect.




 

[French G.]

There are people cheering him on on this board.  I know other people IRL who are probably ecstatic. As has been said before in this thread, if he had legitimate grievances there are lawyers, cable news shows,social media, other ways. The cops he shot have nothing to do with him. I don't think the level of tyranny in US law enforcement, even Cali is anywhere close to the "good nazi is a dead nazi" level. He's a *expletive deleted*bag of a failure who wanted his 15 minutes. If he was committed as he thinks he is to his grievances we'd have nothing in the news except a few page 7 unsolved murders of ranking police officials.

I can do plenty of lulz at the cops exposing their own incompetence by shooting asian ladies, getting sued, the hypocrisy of them hunting him with AR-15s that are only suited for war zones and mere proles can't have, etc. I can be amused and/or outraged by all that and still sincerely wish that this guy gets a bullet in the head soonest.

[zxcvbob]

Hold the phone.

Dorner and Dorner ALONE is at the making of this. Personal responsibility, 100% right there lies with him. Additionally, his core issue is that he will not accept personal responsibility for his screwups in the past and prefers to blame it on everyone else and in his twisted little mind, that makes it A-OK to declare war on society. The LAPD did discover he had issues and rightfully terminated him.

Given that he is a proven liar and a murderer, everything he claims in his manifesto is suspect.

True. (I'll take your word for the liar part)  And LAPD is totally responsible for trying to murder those 2 Asian paper-delivery women.  There are no good guys here.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Hold the phone.

Dorner and Dorner ALONE is at the making of this. Personal responsibility, 100% right there lies with him.

:rollseyes:

You see an unstable guy about to lose it.

Do you take actions to stop him, or do you blithy go about your business or even push him a bit more to see what he'll do?
Are you gonna take no personal responcibilty for the lives lost when you ignored the potential threat or even made it a worse threat?

Dormer isn't the issue. He's a dead man walking and hopefully, he won't be walking much longer.

He is the symptom of a bigger problem.

[zxcvbob]

You see an unstable guy about to lose it.  Do you take actions to stop him, or do you blithy go about your business or even push him a bit more to see what he'll do?

I poke him in the goods with a stick to see what happens.  

[Blakenzy]

Additionally, his core issue is that he will not accept personal responsibility for his screwups in the past and prefers to blame it on everyone else and in his twisted little mind, that makes it A-OK to declare war on society.

Thing is, he isn't perceived to be declaring war on society, he is declaring war on a specific institution that is notorious for being feared and distrusted by the community it operates in. I bet that's the way most anyone who isn't in uniform views it.

We can discuss the individual attributes of the parties involved all day long, their innocence, guilt, sanity or dishonesty.. but you know what, it doesn't factor in anymore. Like it or not, in the public view this has transcended Dorner vs. the individual people that he shot. This has become publicly pulling down the pants of the untouchables, spitting in the holy of hollies...

[kgbsquirrel]

Personally I'm viewing this whole fiasco like the Nazi vs. Klan proverb. Rootin' for the asteroid here.

[Perd Hapley]

Is Gerard on the case yet?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Thing is, he isn't perceived to be declaring war on society, he is declaring war on a specific institution that is notorious for being feared and distrusted by the community it operates in. I bet that's the way most anyone who isn't in uniform views it.

We can discuss the individual attributes of the parties involved all day long, their innocence, guilt, sanity or dishonesty.. but you know what, it doesn't factor in anymore. Like it or not, in the public view this has transcended Dorner vs. the individual people that he shot. This has become publicly pulling down the pants of the untouchables, spitting in the holy of hollies...

reality  the ultimate buzz kill
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/22/local/me-poll22

The findings on the LAPD indicate that Police Chief William J. Bratton has made considerable progress on a centerpiece of his tenure -- reinventing the image of the department in the eyes of the public and, in doing so, moving the department and city beyond a past marred by incidents of police brutality and corruption.

Almost 8 in 10 registered voters said they either "strongly approve" or "somewhat approve" of the police performance today. The response was 18 percentage points higher than in The Times' last survey of the city, in 2005.

The percentages of blacks and Latinos who approve of the LAPD both rose by double digits since the 2005 survey, almost closing a long-running discrepancy between white and minority attitudes. Among Latinos, 76% approved of the department's job performance while 19% disapproved. Among blacks, the split was 68% to 25% and among whites, 81% to 11%.



but opinions from the unencumbered are amusing  in a tragic way

[roo_ster]

Don't forget dude has already killed two innocent folks: the daughter and boyfriend of a LAPD police captain.  Now, given how police & prosecutors seem to go out of their way to destroy whole families, this might be seen as some sort of justice, but I have not yet sunk to the moral depths of police & prosecutors and can not condone such actions.

I also think some folk are mistaking schadenfreude for cheerleading. Taking pleasure in the pain of others does not require that one support he who inflicts the pain.

[longeyes]

Unfortunately, Dorner's manifesto is a microcosm of the mixed up macrocosm of American political and cultural life.  It's a grab bag of fragmented moral splinters that fly off in so many different directions.  The LAPD is not what it wants to be or pretends to be, but neither is Dorner.  I don't see heroism here, just another twisted soul who went rogue and a bureaucratic enclave that itself has gone rogue all too often.

What has struck me too, along the way, as a resident cynic: the fear factor among the police when their own are targeted--Dorner really got their attention by leaping over that line; the militarization we all have observed in the American constabulary--my my such amazing and expensive toys and such impressive tactical gear and uniforms, must be fun to be in SWAT; the great opportunities for huge overtime Mr Dorner is presenting our men in blue, quite a windfall.

[slingshot]

This situation (times 10, 100, 1000, or 10,000) is what the politicians fear most relative to an armed citizentry.  They have good reason to fear it.  My hope is that the potential for this begins to keep politicians working for the people.  Law enforcement are mostly the good guys.  They are your neighbors and brothers.  

So, yes, I am making this a polticial issue and not simply a law enforcement issue.

Dorner's skills are reported to be excellent and he seems to be motiviated.  This appears to have been planned out for a while now to take him at least past the initial shootings and get away.  Beyond this point, it will take resources to be in place for him to continue.  He will resurface again or they will find him frozen to death in the Bear Mt area. His beef with law enforcement probably has some truth behind it, but his mind has twisted his facts and created the justification to take innocents.  Hence, he will be executed just like the guy in AL with the bunker.

[roo_ster]

What has struck me too, along the way, as a resident cynic: the fear factor among the police when their own are targeted--Dorner really got their attention by leaping over that line; the militarization we all have observed in the American constabulary--my my such amazing and expensive toys and such impressive tactical gear and uniforms, must be fun to be in SWAT; the great opportunities for huge overtime Mr Dorner is presenting our men in blue, quite a windfall.

Noticed that, too.  

Also, I have often lamented the gear queer orientation of many departments.  They spend big bucks on hardware when either more training or higher salaries for better quality employees would result in better outcomes.  Would it not have been nice to have hired cops with better judgement and dispositions so as not to have shot up two trucks driven by innocent parties?  What is that I smell?  Yes: big, stinky, panicky, untrained fear.  It is not as if we don't have a large pool of men & women with experience under fire and with difficult ROE.  I do suspect many of them don't want to truck with what passes for the average LEO on big city streets, these days.  Having seen some of those big city cops locally, I do not blame them one bit.

[Tallpine]

Law enforcement are mostly the good guys.

I really wish that I could believe that.  I did, once upon a time.



Tallpine's Maxim:
To the best of your ability, treat everyone as you would like to be treated, because you never know when you will piss off the wrong person.

[longeyes]

Don't get me wrong, I respect the police and understand they have been given, especially in America's urban environments, not only an impossible task but perhaps a deliberately impossible one whose ultimate aim is to criminalize everyone except "the right people" at the top.

That said, the LAPD has an unenviable record of nasty screw-ups over the years, and not just the Rampart scandal (I live not very far from that epicenter) but a string of bad shootings and bad beat-downs in recent times.  Our current police chief does not, to say the least, inspire admiration or confidence.  From what I can tell he is a politician who provides Villaraigosa's blue shadow.

***

And this: Crazy makes crazy.  Our society is very good at identifying obviously wacko outliers, not very good at identifying what should be obviously wacko insiders.  Yes, this goes all the way to the top.   We are generating the crazies and too many of us don't want, it seems, to understand how.

[seeker_two]

To summarize.....

Dorner = Hitler
LAPD = Stalin
California citizens =Poland

.....any questions?