There Are No Poor People In America

[The Rabbi]

I had a Spanish teacher last summer, a nice woman from Colombia.  She had come here about 10 years earlier, not really knowing English.  She was a single parent with two kids.  Now she works for the public schools and is doing fine. She had wroked for a record company doing their customer service in Latin America.
She said, there are no poor people in America, only lazy people.  She went on to talk about how if you were willing to work hard, maybe work 2 or even 3 jobs you could get ahead here.  She made a very convincing case (and I am already sympathetic to the idea).  Too many people talk about how they cant do this or cant do that.

On a thread on THR, someone was complaining about how he was replaced at work by an illegal Mexican worker.  I should have said his problem was his job skills were so poor that he COULD be replaced by basically an illiterate.  Yet I suspect an Anglo foreman who can speak Spanish could write his own ticket in most factories.  I wonder if the guy ever thought about learning Spanish.  But probably cant do that, for a hundred reasons.

[Standing Wolf]

There are people in America who aren't able to work. People with severe mental and physical handicaps, for example, sometimes can't find work of any kind at any salary. If you've got an I.Q. of 40and I've known a couple people in that general rangeeven flipping hamburgers isn't on the list of possibilities.
That said", I think we need to bear two considerations in mind: 1.) people who want to get ahead can do so if they're willing to work, and 2.) even people well below the so-called "poverty line" in America actually live better than the vast majority of people only a century ago.
I believe the single most inhumane thing we've done since the end of the so-called "Indian Wars" was to expand welfare under Lyndon Johnson's so-called "Great Society" and "War on Poverty." We told millions of Americans in effect, "You're not good enough to make the grade, so we'll hand you some government money." We've now turned three generations of people into helpless, hopeless welfare cases. We've paid them not to be responsible, andmirabile dictu!they've been irresponsible.
I have a distant relative who grew up on welfare, as did her mother, as did her children. Eventually, the state of Michigan told her she was about to run out of free money. She was shocked. She was flabbergasted. She had no idea what to do. She scrambled to finish a high school equivalency course and took courses at the local community college with the last of her welfare dollars. She's now a network administrator. At the tender age of ±40, she bought her very first new car. I don't know her well, but have heard she's doing all right on her job, sending her kids to school every day, and taking much more pride in her appearance and demeanor.

[Fjolnirsson]

Standing Wolf,

Isn't it remarkable what folks can do when the freebies run out?

[Greg Levy]

I agree.  And if I had to pick two words to blame it on, I think I would say it's entitlement, and pride.  'The Great Society' Standing Wolf talks about has created a huge sence of entitlement in people, while destroying the concept of pride.

I have a sister-in-law(soon to be ex).  She has two kids from two different fathers.  She never even learned the name of the father of the second baby!  The State is giving her WIC tickets, and she lives in Section 8 housing.  Her apartment she pays $500 a month for is much nicer than anything I ever paid $1000 a month for.  My parents gave her their 1996 Saturn they didn't drive anymore.  She sold it and went on a shopping spree...new purses, and a new living room set(Leather with two kids under 5!).  She then bought a 2004 Saturn view...$425 a month payments, but, hey...Zero down with no payments for 6 months, so who cares!  

6 months after payments start, the SUV is repossed one night.  3 months later, she is driving a 1997 Explorer...17% interest rate, but what does she care, it's not like she needs to make payments.  Someone will give her a loan to buy another car sooner or later.

Too make things worse, she just got her income tax refund.  Due to Earned Income Credit and her two kids, she got more money back then she paid!!!!!!!  And what did she do with her check?  Pay off some of her debt?  Nope...took her and the kidsto Disney Land.  Outbleeping standing.  Between Social Security, Income tax and Medicare, I paid almost $20,000 to the Government last year(let's not even get started Washington Sales Tax or Property tax) so my Sister-in-law could take her kids to see Micky.  

See...why should she be responsible...she knows the State is not going to let her or her kids starve!  

She represents what 'Poor' is in America..living in 3 bedroom Apartments with pools, and driving SUV's that WE pay for.  

As for homeless people...I forget the numbers(or the source so don't call my bluff) but I once read that a sizable percentage of them are out on the streets by choice.

Just last year, the local paper did a series of stories about a 40-acre green belt in Bremerton that is inhabited by HUNDREDS of people camping outside.  Several of them told about how they would go to their P.O. Box to get their state/disability/social security check's, cash them, go to Big K-mart to go buy food for the week, then go back to the woods.  These folks seemed HORRIFIED at the idea that they regain society by renting homes, or paying taxes, or getting jobs.

I can't blame them..what a relaxing life...

And then there is me.  The last two years, I have worked over 1250 hours of OT a year.  I'm a Federal Employee, so it may seem I'm being hypocritical bashing people for camping and seeing Michky on the Government dime, but trust me...I would surrender my job in a heartbeat if I thought it would make your and my taxes go down.

Sigh...I am not going to be able to sleep tonight, too fired up now.  Can you tell they are talking about raising the gas tax 15 cents a gallon here in Washington?  

greg

[Guest]

Your right about the lack of TRUE poverty in America. One doesnt have to travel very far to see what it is like to actually be in poverty. I have a number of friends from various countries, some of them even European who have commented on this as well. Our "poor people" mostly have a place to sleep and plenty of food to eat. Some of them even have nice clothes and drive cars. This is definatly a different thing from people who live in ramshackle huts, can't buy shoes, and face the actual possibility of starvation.

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Just last year, the local paper did a series of stories about a 40-acre green belt in Bremerton that is inhabited by HUNDREDS of people camping outside.  Several of them told about how they would go to their P.O. Box to get their state/disability/social security check's, cash them, go to Big K-mart to go buy food for the week, then go back to the woods.  These folks seemed HORRIFIED at the idea that they regain society by renting homes, or paying taxes, or getting jobs.

I can't blame them..what a relaxing life...

It would be on a boat moored, as many people do, for free in the Florida Keys.  

There is a war memorial down in the City of Virginia Beach, surrounded by trees where the bums cache their belongings during the day, some even sleep in the trees. It's like some reversion to a more primitive hominid state. I coined the term "Bum-rangutans" to describe this species.

[Preacherman]

I have been through several of the "worst" inner-city areas in the USA:  Chicago, LA, New Orleans, Detroit, Philadelphia.  In every case, the person showing me the area would comment that these are "poverty-stricken" areas.  I usually commented that if you could show the average African "poor" person this sort of lifestyle, where even the poorest owned color TV's, lounge suites, cars, etc., the African would cheerfully commit mass murder in order to obtain the "privilege" of living like America's poorest!

Poverty is relative...

[Stand_watie]

Agree with the statement about the "Great society" program. I think there have been three distinct waves of slavery in America.

Original Indian and African chain slavery and genocide (not neccessarily the technically correct term, but close enough).

Jim Crow.

Welfare and a culture of victimhood.

[The Rabbi]

Standing Wolf,
You are right: there are a small number of people who are simply incapable of holding any kind of job (I think I'm one of them).  Welfare is for people like this.  But that isnt even close to the majority of those on welfare.  When I see immigrants here for the most part they are busting their buns working long hours, planning their next step.  There is no reason that Americans cannot do the same thing.

[TarpleyG]

CHL,

It would be on a boat moored, as many people do, for free in the Florida Keys.

Pretty much sums up my retirment plans.  Read a lot about how to live on the cheap on a yacht.  Only thing you gotta pay is for diesel once or twice a year and insurance if you want it.

Greg

[Guest]

I agree..we're blessed in this country. Still, it can be hard to make it.

I find I'm a lot more sympathetic after spending years as a single parent, raising kids, without a college degree.  

I went to school full time while working full time and raising two kids without any kind of support at all, and it was hard. Like dog-tired every day for years but gotta keep going anyway hard. I'm slightly better off now, but still up to my ass in debt from a few years of doing that. Trust me when I tell you that debt was not run up by good livin' or fancy cars..not that the minivan with 192k on it isn't fine..it is, but you get my point.

I'm not sure right what more I could do other than just keep working and chipping away at it. Still, I was blessed by being healthy, fairly bright and independent. I really don't know how some people make it.

[Antibubba]

Stand-watie,

   Are the welfare receipients the slaves, or are we?

   Let's make sure we get our definitions right.  The people who can't work due to mental or physical impairments are on disability.  And while in an ideal society these people would be taken care of privately, I won't carp about taking care of their basic needs.  My best friend in the world is schizo-affective, and has a few other problems as well.  She's never going to get better, and she can't hold a job.  And while we may go on about her free medical care, what she gets is crappy.  Overworked, apathetic doctors, and not exactly the best in their field-if she got to see a good doctor who monitored her and her meds, she might be able to achieve more.

   Are there a few "happily homeless" who milk the system?  A few.  Very few.  Most of the homeless have some really severe health problems-and if they weren't serious when they first got on the street, they are in a short time.  Put the Depression-era hobo out of your mind; homelessness is brutal.

[Stand_watie]

Are the welfare receipients the slaves, or are we?

The welfare recipients.

[mfree]

If you want the true American poor, go find some of the people living up in the nooks and crannies of the appalachians.

[bountyhunter]

"She said, there are no poor people in America, only lazy people."

Heard it all before.  Suffered eight years here under Reagan as Governor and eight more as alleged president.  His admins had a very strict policy about such things:

Just say NO to poor people.

[Ron]

Bountyhunter,
                      LOL!!!   Sometimes you almost come off as a caricature of a lefty,  I am sorry "Progressive".

I know you hate it but it is true,  a rising tide lifts all boats.

Of course you probably prefer the state using the threat of violence (if I don't comply) redistributing my money, the wealth of the productive class and giving it to the lazy, drug addicted immoral class.

[InfidelSerf]

I've often said to myself and others, when times are hard and the future is uncertain and bleak and your feeling depressed.  Remind yourself that everyone of us live better than many great emperors and kings.  Just having running water on demand and the ability to read and write at any time of the day are blessings.

I was offered the opportunity to attend college out of highschool, and declined. I chose the direct jump into the "workforce" and have never been unable to obtain a job since I was 14.

I just quit a job I took with a multibillion dollar NASDAQ traded corp, because I was faced with the sad but real world of modern "progressive" corporate politics.  I started with the company two and a half years ago intending on working up their ladder. Taking an entry level job at $8.00/hour (just an average joe schmoe here with a 15+years of working experience and one college course since HS) in one year that rose to 10 and one year after that I was in management making $14+ ready to make a move to an upper mid 5 figure salary when honestly I believe it was my right wing views and talk radio listening choices that cost me the promotion.. that and I am heterosexual. But I digress.
My point is that at the time I took the job 2.5 years ago Sprint was dumping highly trained college degree'd professionals into the local market all with mortgages and car payments, there by saturating the local computer consulting market.  Which is what I was doing at that time.  So I turned to a lowly grocery store job, the one I just quit.

I took the 6 weeks of vacation pay that I had earned busting my hump for them, and swore that I would never sell myself short to anyone else but myself:)   Sure I could go get a "safe" entry level job again and bust my arse for someother guys company that I'm just going to find flaws in.  Or I can work just as hard for myself. In the end I really don't care how much I end up making an hour working for myself.  That is never a measure of the satisfaction one can have for owning their own time.  

I'm sure the parental rebutals will ensue.  Sure being single with no children (unless you count 2 cats 2 motorcycles 2 cars and a 4runner as kids) gives me an advantage and makes my idea more realistic.  
But I don't think I would do anything different at this point.  
There are millions of ways to find shelter and food and earn a living in this country if you are willing to just buck up and do them.  And none of them require asking for help from another human or government entity.


Don't get me wrong, I'm a natural born lazy a** American too .  I honestly believe the only reason I'm not a multimillionare is simply my laziness.  But I live damn good and have zero stress.  And to me that's priceless.

[telewinz]

The following are facts about persons defined as poor by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

- Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or
patio.
- Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
- Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
- The typical poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to
those classified as poor.)
- Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
- Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
- Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
- Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

I think being "poor" in this country is more of a mental hardship/strain than anything else but their is still 44 illion without health insurance.

[Greg Levy]

Heck..I don't even have Air Conditioning.

Question for some of the older and wiser among us...how long has 'Health Insurance' been an issue?  I am pretty sure I don't remember my Grand Father ever talking about such a creature as Health Insurance..so obviously, there MUST be some way to exist with out it.

greg

[telewinz]

Health Insurance starte with Kaiser Aluminum in the early 40's to lure more production workers during WW2.  Then hospitals were non-profit and doctors made house calls.  A large pool of money draws an awful lot of flies, the health industry as a whole has grown to  "tap" this money.  Thats one reason to nationalize health care, take away the profit incentive (monopoly?) and salesmanship and that aspirin no longer costs $150 (in the hospital) and cost saving efforts take take on a whole new meaning.

[trapperjohn]

America: The only country where there are fat poor people.


Heath insurance benifits started in WWII. The federal government put a cap on all salaries. To attract workers companies began to offer "benifits" one of those benifits is health care. Now,a mere 60 years later, it seems that benifit, that was a response to government interference, is treated as a right.

[The Rabbi]

Trapper, not exactly.  I dont know when employers started offering it but it came about because of tax advantages.  The employer who pays for health insurance gets to deduct the cost of it from his revenue.  If he paid the same amount to the employees and let them buy it he would have to pay tax on the wages (and so would the employees of course). Solution: tax it as a benefit just like income.

Medicine was much cheaper 40-50 years ago because there wasnt a whole lot doctors could do.  If you had Hodgkins Disease you were a goner.  Today it has a 90% cure rate.  If you had testicular cancer, you were done.  Today Lance Armstrong seems to be doing fine.  No organ transplants.  No MRIs.  No chemotherapy. Etc etc etc.  Medicine is fundamentally more valuable today because it increases both longevity and quality of life.  The research that goes into that isnt cheap and the liability is enormous.  An OB/Gyn in most places probably pays over $200k just in malpractice insurance.  Yes, two hundred thousand dollars.  Who do you think pays for that?

[Vodka7]

Let me make a disclaimer:

A few things aside, I still consider myself a liberal, even though all the online tests say I should be a libertarian.

That said, I think the single greatest problem in this country is how god damned happy everyone is about himself.  It got mentioned earlier in the thread--everyone's full of pride and has a sense of self worth far surpassing what that individual has earned.  But unlike most people, I don't attribute this in any way to welfare, nor do I disagree with the idea of welfare.  What I attribute it to is how politically uncorrect we've made it to look down on anyone for any reason whatsoever.

The simple fact is, some people are dumb.  Some people are lazy.  Some people weren't meant to go to college.  But, we can't say that to anyone, because God forbid we hurt his feelings and make him feel in any way different whatsoever from his peers.  We've gotten too wrapped up in making everyone feel OK and ignoring all types of differences.  People shouldn't be discriminated on because of their skin color, economic status, or handicap--but if you can't handle the work or don't want to do it, the rest of society should not have to pretend that you're doing just fine.  But that's what we do, we keep on pretending that everything's ok, and what happens?

We lower our standards.  On everything.  For the older members on the board, how many of you knew someone who couldn't get into college, or didnt want to go?  How many of your children, your friends' children, and your children's friends can't get in or aren't planning on going?  Probably none.  We've set college as an ideal that everyone should ascribe to, and at the same time, we've made college easier to get into, because we want everyone to feel good about themselves.

Everyone should learn how to read.  Everyone should learn at least some algebra.  But beyond that, we need to stop requiring things from everyone in our school system, because all we do is lower the criteria we used to grade knowledge of a subject by.  People have different strengths and weaknesses and should be allowed to explore them, instead of being forced into a required level of mediocrity.  If you love working on things, someone should recognize this and try to help you get the right classes--a bunch of shop, maybe some physical art like pottery, some math, some business, whatever that person might need to get ahead in what he wants to do.  To say that person should take four years of literature, two years of a foreign language, and three years of sciences just because someone arbitrarily decided what everyone should know is ridiculous.

The best example I can come up with is Spanish class.  Remember that?  Did you learn anything you felt was useful?  Can you remember more than how to ask where the bathroom is?  I bet you'd rather have that hour a day from two to four years of your life back.  And I bet those of you who really loved Spanish class would have loved to ditch the twenty other idiots like me who just took it because we had to in order to get into college.

I've gone off here.  But the problem is we're whitewashing everything.  We need more specialization, more differentiation, and at a much earlier age.  Expecting the same thing out of everyone only serves to limit what we can expect.

[Happy Bob]

Rabbi, you posted the nugget above:

...planning...

Yup.

[doczinn]

Sure being single with no children (unless you count 2 cats 2 motorcycles 2 cars and a 4runner as kids) gives me an advantage and makes my idea more realistic.

Those who have not yet given themselves the tools they need to provide  for children shouldn't have any anyway. Or in other words, if you're poor, control your hormones. I'm working 40 hours and taking 17 units in college, and there are definitely no kids in my near future.

Besides being stupid, it's cruel to the kids.

Of course, if you have kids and then become poor, it's a different ballgame.