Author Topic: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan  (Read 6548 times)

Scout26

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Lisa Madigan's (Attorney General for Illinois) request for an En-Banc hearing on the case that ended the ban on carry in Illinois has been denied!!!  (Barely, it appears the vote was 5-4.)

http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/docs.fwx?submit=rss_sho&shofile=12-1269_003.pdf


Not sure if they will appeal to the USSC, but this pretty much makes 9 June a lock.  

And I thought I heard the sounds of sphincter's slamming shut in Chicago and Springfield.  
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2013, 04:15:45 PM »
Constitutional Carry in IL, against "our betters" wishes?

Sweet. >:D
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

RevDisk

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2013, 05:02:58 PM »
Constitutional Carry in IL, against "our betters" wishes?

Sweet. >:D


BWAHAHAHAHHA

Only better thing would be if Chicago tried to keep enforcing their law. They'd be writing out very impressive checks. I wouldn't be surprised if more enterprising folks had lawyers ready to go, papers ready to be filed, for being arrested while open or concealed carry.

Philly used to be that way. You could make good money having your rights infringed and the gun courts slapping down Philly.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2013, 05:13:25 PM »
Constitutional Carry in IL, against "our betters" wishes?

Sweet. >:D

Never

Gonna

Happen.

One way or another the Ill. legislature will find a way. Whats to stop them, the courts enforcement police? Eric Holders "justice" Dept?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Scout26

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2013, 05:54:18 PM »
What has actually happened is that the 7th declared Illinois UUW and AUUW statues unconstitutional with a stay of 180 days from the date of the ruling (9 Dec 2012) which means it gave the sate until 9 June 2013 to pass an LTC law.  There is the one written by the NRA/ISRA that is pretty good.  Open and Concealed, Shall Issue, minimal training.  They have said pledged to no changes/compromises.   It either this or Con-Carry.  Which could be problematic as Illinois has no preemption law, thereby allowing each unit of .gov to set it's own laws.  However, a couple towns/villages/library boards being sued in Federal Court, and most likely losing, will change that, but it would still be years in the making.     
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Phantom Warrior

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2013, 09:14:35 PM »
Excellent!  Great news for the residents of the IL.

P.S.  "En Banc" is French for "on a bench."  -My Civ Pro professor.

brimic

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2013, 09:21:29 PM »
Yay!
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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Jamisjockey

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2013, 08:58:52 AM »

BWAHAHAHAHHA

Only better thing would be if Chicago tried to keep enforcing their law. They'd be writing out very impressive checks. I wouldn't be surprised if more enterprising folks had lawyers ready to go, papers ready to be filed, for being arrested while open or concealed carry.

Philly used to be that way. You could make good money having your rights infringed and the gun courts slapping down Philly.

Virginia has had open carry for many, many years, yet VA Beach keeps arresting people for violating city ordinances prohibiting carry at events like harbor fest.
I predict the city of Chicago doing this very thing. Repeatedly.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2013, 10:40:01 AM »
Of course with Chicago's history I would expect someone open carrying to be shot down by the police for "officer safety" of course. Kind of a real "blood in the streets" type thing.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Strings

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 02:01:29 PM »
While this is good news for those of you in Illinoying, it doesn't really do much for those of us in the actual US.

We don't have FOID, so we couldn't have our guns with us anyway...
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Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

lee n. field

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 04:23:07 PM »
While this is good news for those of you in Illinoying, it doesn't really do much for those of us in the actual US.

We don't have FOID, so we couldn't have our guns with us anyway...

Oh, no.  Visitors have more rights, in that respect, than residents.

Visitors can buy ammo without FOID, for one thing.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2013, 05:50:53 PM »
Quote
Visitors can buy ammo without FOID, for one thing.

IIRC, they can also buy guns without a FOID (if they connect the IL FFL with the FFL in their own states, of course).

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2013, 06:24:59 PM »
I believe the shall-issue bill that only barely didn't pass last time, and has been reintroduced, has preemption. That's why Chicago is whining. Given the circumstances there is no reason to assume that was removed.

I know I'm being bitchy but could we give some context on this stuff?

For instance, bad bills are introduced all the time in every state, often the same bill that went nowhere last year, and the year before that. Can we note that and save the gloom and doom part until they get more than one co-sponsor or appear to have the votes to get out of committee? It only takes a few seconds of google to check that stuff.
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lee n. field

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2013, 07:30:44 PM »
Quote
I know I'm being bitchy but could we give some context on this stuff?

Bills that overrule home rule require a supermajority.  This would include a carry bill with preemption.  We could have had CCW for "downstate" (Illinoisspeak for the rest of Illinois) on a simple majority, and probably could have had it a long time ago. 

Finagling on the part of the usual suspects cost some votes on last year's bill (or was it the year before), and it was withdrawn at the last minute lest it fail completely.  End of session blew past without it being called again.

This time, we've got the 7th circuit's Moore vs. Madigan decision giving us some incredible leverage.  They have to pass something, lest they blow past the June deadline and we get "wild!-west!-blood!-in!-the!-streets!".  All we have to do is hold the line against bad bills.  We have a good bill.  A really nice bill -- I didn't see much in it to quibble about.

Illinoiscarry.com is the place to watch to keep up on goings on. 

Scout, have I about covered it?
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2013, 07:43:49 PM »
Bills that overrule home rule require a supermajority.  This would include a carry bill with preemption.  We could have had CCW for "downstate" (Illinoisspeak for the rest of Illinois) on a simple majority, and probably could have had it a long time ago.  

Finagling on the part of the usual suspects cost some votes on last year's bill (or was it the year before), and it was withdrawn at the last minute lest it fail completely.  End of session blew past without it being called again.

This time, we've got the 7th circuit's Moore vs. Madigan decision giving us some incredible leverage.  They have to pass something, lest they blow past the June deadline and we get "wild!-west!-blood!-in!-the!-streets!".  All we have to do is hold the line against bad bills.  We have a good bill.  A really nice bill -- I didn't see much in it to quibble about.

Illinoiscarry.com is the place to watch to keep up on goings on.  

Scout, have I about covered it?


I actually knew all that.  =D My point was more general, "omigad someone introduced an anti-gun bill somewhere it's tyranny eleventy!!!!!" posts.

No, it's a bill, it's only a bill, sitting there on capital hill... in committee, where it's sat every session for a decade cause it didn't go anywhere.

And this one does matter outside IL cause it sets up a clear circuit split on the right to carry for Scotus and gives the 9th Circuit cover for ruling the same shortly, They won't be all alone.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

drewtam

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2013, 09:17:53 PM »
it's a bill, it's only a bill, sitting there on capital hill... in committee,

 :laugh:

http://youtu.be/H-eYBZFEzf8
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Scout26

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2013, 10:38:18 PM »
Bills that overrule home rule require a supermajority.  This would include a carry bill with preemption.  We could have had CCW for "downstate" (Illinoisspeak for the rest of Illinois) on a simple majority, and probably could have had it a long time ago.  

Finagling on the part of the usual suspects cost some votes on last year's bill (or was it the year before), and it was withdrawn at the last minute lest it fail completely.  End of session blew past without it being called again.

This time, we've got the 7th circuit's Moore vs. Madigan decision giving us some incredible leverage.  They have to pass something, lest they blow past the June deadline and we get "wild!-west!-blood!-in!-the!-streets!".  All we have to do is hold the line against bad bills.  We have a good bill.  A really nice bill -- I didn't see much in it to quibble about.

Illinoiscarry.com is the place to watch to keep up on goings on.  

Scout, have I about covered it?


Yep, that's about it.  There are a couple of minor things that I would like to see changed (carry in bars, and fewer restricted places).  But over all HB00997* is a great shall-issue bill that 1) removed a lot of the compromises that HB00148 (from last year) had in it; and 2) it takes a lot of good things from other states (that took them years and several steps to accomplish) in one final package.  It currently has 47 bi-partisan co-sponsors.  (Needs 71 votes to pass) and Mike Madigan is pissed+.  Got two e-mails today (one each from ISRA and IllinoisCarry.com) that he's going to introduce his own bill HB1155, that pretty much will be a "No-issue" carry bill.   These morons just don't get it.  They keep writing checks to SAF, Alan Gura, the NRA and ISRA (along with the plaintiffs) everytime the City (and now the state) tries "To be too cute by half"  (Judge Rozner to City of Chicago Attorney during testimony in Ezell)




*
Quote
Synopsis As Introduced
Creates the Family and Personal Protection Act. Provides that the Department of State Police shall issue a license to a person to: (1) carry a loaded or unloaded handgun on or about his or her person, concealed or otherwise; (2) keep or carry a loaded or unloaded handgun on or about his or her person when in a vehicle; and (3) keep a loaded or unloaded handgun openly or concealed in a vehicle. Prohibits the carrying of the handgun in certain locations. Provides that the license shall be issued by the Department of State Police within 30 days of receipt of a completed application and shall be valid throughout the State for a period of 5 years from the date of issuance. Provides for renewal of licenses. Establishes qualifications for licensees, certified firearms instructors, and instructor trainers. Provides for home rule preemption. Provides that the provisions of the Act are severable. Amends the Freedom of Information Act. Prohibits from inspection and copying information about applications for licenses to carry a handgun and about license holders contained in the database created by the Family and Personal Protection Act, except as authorized by that Act. Amends the State Finance Act and the Criminal Code of 2012 to make conforming changes. Effective immediately.

+  
Quote
Mike Madigan is ticked off...

Why is Mike Madigan so ticked off? Quite simply, he’s ticked off because the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals has told him plainly that the legislature must bow to constitutional authority – not to the whims of Mike Madigan. And we all know what a control freak Mike Madigan is.

No, Mike Madigan is no longer in control of the concealed carry debate. The courts have said once and for all that Illinois will join 49 other states in allowing citizens to carry defensive firearms.

The court has really ticked Madigan off...

Mike Madigan is so ticked off that he plans to introduce his own version of a concealed carry bill early next week. Of course, under Madigan’s carry bill, the only people who would be allowed to carry would be... um... nobody.

Although the details of Madigan’s concealed carry bill (HB1155) have not yet been released, those close to Madigan are saying that it will be the most restrictive concealed carry bill in the nation.

One insider termed Madigan’s proposal, “...the closest thing to no-carry at all.”


WHAT YOU MUST DO TO STOP MADIGAN’S INSULTING BILL

1. Beginning first thing Monday morning, call your state representative and politely tell them that you are a law-abiding firearm owner and that you oppose Madigan’s insulting HB1155 and that you would like them to vote against the bill.

2. Pass this alert on to all your friends and family members and ask them to call their state representatives as well.

3. Please post this alert to any and all Internet blogs or bulletin boards to which you belong.

If you do not know who your state representative is, please click the link below and you will be able to identify your representative and get their Springfield phone number.

The Illinois State Board of Elections has a new interactive search page here:
www.elections.state.il.us/DistrictLocator/DistrictOfficialSearchByAddress.aspx

So yes, even if you don't live here, feel free to call Madigan's office next week, every day.  It's fun to hear the NRA/ISRA lobbyists tell stories of how the state Reps and Senators come to them to "Make it stop", with the phone calls and e-mails and they pull the bad bills.   [popcorn] [popcorn]
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 01:00:14 AM by scout26 »
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Strings

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2013, 11:54:57 PM »
Ok... so let's say IL DOES go ConCarry.

What does that do for the rest of the nation? Last I heard, if you're caught in IL with a gun and no FOID, you're up a creek...
No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

Scout26

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2013, 01:01:32 AM »
Ok... so let's say IL DOES go ConCarry.

What does that do for the rest of the nation? Last I heard, if you're caught in IL with a gun and no FOID, you're up a creek...


Only if you are a resident.  (e.g. Have an Illinois Driver's license.)

FOID only applies to residents. Non-residents are exempt (and in fact cannot even get a) FOID.

If we get Con-Carry, then (I'm guessing here, as IANAL,) that if you are either licensed to carry or legal to posses a firearm in your home state, then you could also carry here.

Here's the current Illinois State Police "Transport Your Firearm Legally" Pamphlet.
http://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/1-154.pdf
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

lee n. field

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2013, 08:27:45 AM »
Ok... so let's say IL DOES go ConCarry.

What does that do for the rest of the nation? Last I heard, if you're caught in IL with a gun and no FOID, you're up a creek...

An Illinois FOID is not difficult to get.  And as I noted elsewhere, IL cuts non-residents considerable slack on FOID.
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At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

Phantom Warrior

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2013, 05:14:04 PM »
I actually knew all that.  =D My point was more general, "omigad someone introduced an anti-gun bill somewhere it's tyranny eleventy!!!!!" posts.

No, it's a bill, it's only a bill, sitting there on capital hill... in committee, where it's sat every session for a decade cause it didn't go anywhere.

This times a billion.

drewtam

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2013, 09:36:12 AM »
Scout, Lee, et al, are you going to IGOLD on March 6th?

This might be my first year going.
I’m not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The… tactleneck!

lee n. field

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2013, 09:44:56 AM »
Scout, Lee, et al, are you going to IGOLD on March 6th?

This might be my first year going.

I'm going.  I first went in, I think, '08, and have attended each since.
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At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

drewtam

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2013, 10:00:59 AM »
Just scheduled the day off, and bought the bus tickets.  [ar15]

I plan on bringing my daughter (5yrs old). Good idea? Bad idea?

Want to meet up down there?
I’m not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The… tactleneck!

lee n. field

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Re: Seventh Circuit denies En-Banc hearing in Moore/Shepard v Madigan
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2013, 10:05:35 AM »
Just scheduled the day off, and bought the bus tickets.  [ar15]

I plan on bringing my daughter (5yrs old). Good idea? Bad idea?

Want to meet up down there?

5 year old, should be OK if she sticks with Daddy.  Dress her warm.  Sometimes we get lucky with weather, but often it's chilly and breezy.

Which bus?

(Interesting.  I just noticed they've added a second bus for Rockford-Mendota-Normal.)
In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.