How would you start securing the Mex/U.S. border?

[kgbsquirrel]

Here's a (hopefully wont go political?) mental exercise for y'all.

How would you start securing the border, starting today, if you had control over DOJ/DOD/DHS/KFC?




The border is 1,969 miles long. I'd start by planting a hesco CoP every half-mile, and manning each of them with a 10 person team working half-n-half 12 on/off. Duty cycle would be four days, upon which time they get relieved by a fresh 10 man team. For two teams per CoP this comes out to roughly 80,000 people, not counting support groups and such. Lets put down a support base/FOB for every 50 miles of border, with up to 500 people per and that brings the grand total up to 100,000 troops. Random vehicle patrols to be provided by the FOB contingent. Each FOB shall maintain at least two armed helicopters that are at a ready-to-fly status for QRF, or pursuit of illegal crossers fleeing in vehicles that the CoP's are unable to catch. Each CoP should have at least one MRAP, a humvee, and any other vehicles as needed and equipped with suitable crew served weapons and thermal/night vision devices.

U.S. Army has about 1.1 million active and reserve personnel. That's a border deployment of 3 months every 2 and a half years, or a 6 month border deployment every 5 years, if we don't cycle in Marine units and other service branches.


ROE:
Engage any armed illegal crosser with lethal force.
Any survivors who surrender are to be turned over to BP.
Warning shots are not allowed.
Any unarmed illegal crosser is to be intercepted by the nearest CoP's, and turned over to BP.
QRF's and random patrols provided from the FOB's are not to stray farther north than 12 miles from the border unless in active pursuit of illegal crossers.

ETA: further/farther.


Second stage after establishing a presence on the border would be to convert the rapidly deployed hesco CoP's to more permanent and secure earthen dammed reinforced concrete structures. Observation and weapon tower, below that the main bunker, and connected off to the sides would be the bunk room and hygiene facilities (a real bathroom, with real showers, not the conex crap) and a secure enclosed motor pool. Fairly simple and small (relatively speaking) structure. Power, water and sewage provided off local utilities where available, and installed as needed as part of the temporary to permanent conversions.

[Fitz]

I am intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter

[cordex]

I'd buy 2,700 MRAPs.

Then park them in Wyoming.

I bet I've got a future in Obama's cabinet.

[charby]

Start fining employers who hire undocumented workers @ $1000 per day of known employment per undocumented worker.

Deny healthcare/welfare to anyone who is not an american citizen or has a valid VISA.

Those should take care of part of the problem.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

support groups and such.  whats your estimate on that?  as well as the infrastructure to handle prisoners?  it appears to be an approach similar to the war on some drugs.  i think we need to change the structure.  we need to get folks here to stop hiring illegals.   "if you hire them they will come"   the reverse is true

[Fitz]

Start fining employers who hire undocumented workers @ $1000 per day of known employment per undocumented worker.

Deny healthcare/welfare to anyone who is not an american citizen or has a valid VISA.

Those should take care of part of the problem.

Deincentivize illegal immigration

Then, open borders.

VIVA LA LIBERTARIANISM or something

[kgbsquirrel]

Start fining employers who hire undocumented workers @ $1000 per day of known employment per undocumented worker.

Deny healthcare/welfare to anyone who is not an american citizen or has a valid VISA.

Those should take care of part of the problem.

That helps with the issue of illegal migrant labor but doesn't address the issue of human and contraband trafficking.

[Nick1911]

Like almost every problem, this is a purely political problem.

Area denial tech was figured out long ago, we simply don't have the political will implement it.

Reasonable barbed wire fences and bilingual signs, behind that: landmines.  Problem solved.  And for a minimal installation and operating costs.

[HankB]

An unbroken border fence with gates ONLY at official ports of entry would be a good start; hire that Israeli company that built a wall between Israel and Gaza - they didn't spend a billion dollars a mile or whatever preposterous amount we did for unconnected sections of fence.

$1000/day fines for the employers who knowingly or carelessly employ illegals? Hard to argue with that.

After apprehension, illegals should be deported as soon as an investigation reveals whether or not they're suspects in another crime. Fingerprints and DNA will be taken, but the holding time for ordinary illegals will be somewhere between hours and days, certainly not weeks.

The only right - the ONLY right! - any illegal held on immigration violations alone will be humane treatment during his brief, pre-deportation custody. Then it's on a bus, plane, boat, or train back to his country of origin's nearest point of entry. And he gets to go back only with the clothes on his back, all other possessions forfeited to the government as the ill-gotten proceeds of his illegal presence. And of course, he can't sue anyone for anything, since, again, his ONLY right is humane treatment while he's in custody.

[AZRedhawk44]

How would you start securing the border, starting today, if you had control over DOJ/DOD/DHS/KFC?

Gravy moat.

 


Make health insurance as a whole, illegal.  The entire bloody market.  Pay for care.  Or don't... and don't get care.

Eliminate SNAP, WIC, SCHIP, etc.  I saw "Debra Robinson" at the grocery store last month using her WIC benefits.  She didn't speak a lick of English and I'm guessing her Oaxacan ancestry and genetics is much stronger than that represented by her English surname.

Eliminate income taxes entirely.  The only taxes left are consumption taxes and vehicle operation taxes.

Now the only free thing for illegals to mooch, is schooling for their children.  While I resent that under our current model... under the above proposed model they would still pay appropriate consumption or vehicle operation taxes.

Move military bases in border states to border zones.  Concertina wire, moats (gravy or not), manned sentry posts, land mines, psychological operations against likely smuggling corridors, armored patrols, whatever. 

[Hawkmoon]

The border is 1,969 miles long. I'd start by planting a hesco CoP every half-mile, ...

Translation, please.

hesco?

CoP?

[Hawkmoon]

support groups and such.  whats your estimate on that?  as well as the infrastructure to handle prisoners?  it appears to be an approach similar to the war on some drugs.  i think we need to change the structure.  we need to get folks here to stop hiring illegals.   "if you hire them they will come"   the reverse is true

Hire them -- or give them welfare. If they can't get "the jobs Americans won't do," they'll happily accept payment to sit home and watch television all day.

I, too, would start with eliminating ALL benefits for illegal aliens (even those who call themselves "undocumented workers"). No free medical care. Not welfare. No food stamps. Kids can't attend public schools. No tuition breaks or scholarships for their kids to attend U.S. colleges. Nada.

[Viking]

Translation, please.

hesco?

CoP?

Hesco
CoP = Combat Outpost.

[Waitone]

Remove the welcoming economic environment for illegal labor and it will self deport at no cost to the taxpayer.

[kgbsquirrel]

Remove the welcoming economic environment for illegal labor and it will self deport at no cost to the taxpayer.

Again, a good start, but there's more than just illegal migrant workers coming across the border.

Weapon smuggling (heading north, despite what the media claims)
Drug smuggling
Human smuggling (despite popular belief, slavery is alive and well in the world, including in the U.S., most notably regarding prostitution)

So, you've covered one out of four problems coming across the border, what about the other three?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Remove the welcoming economic environment for illegal labor and it will self deport at no cost to the taxpayer.

this!!!  ^^^^   in spades


also i think we need to get real vis a vis a fence

take a real look at some examples of fencing

[AmbulanceDriver]

I think a combination of kgb's plan and removing the economic incentives would be the one-two punch needed.  Currently, almost the entire amount of the "sequester" that liberals are crying about is sent to Mexico as "remittances"...   Latest figures I found for 2011 was $69.2 BILLION per year...

One of the local talk show hosts has a great idea....   If an employer can't provide a matching name/ssn (using e-verify as an example) for an employee, the employer cannot deduct that employees payroll from their taxes.  It would be a *huge* tax hit and eliminates the whole cash under the table transactions as well...   Because I don't know many employers that would be willing to take the tax hit on even one illegal...  Much less a large workforce (large farms, for example).

[birdman]

Create a 1/2 mile wide river by overlapping deep detonations of 100-200kT sized warheads, should require about 2000-4000 or so warheads, thereby connecting the Atlantic with the pacific (bonus, new canal)

Put up 2000 automated CROWS turrets with m2hb's, with "shoot at anything above ambient temperature" engagement logic.

Add a few bridges for transit.

Done. 

Normal height difference between Atlantic and pacific will ensure a steady current to wash away any "results".
Add in flow turbines to generate power.

Meets even this administration's goals of renewable energy and nuclear disarmament

[Blakenzy]

Imprison Americans involved in hiring or paying illegal aliens.

Ruin drug cartels by legalizing drug markets.

[Ron]

Deincentivize illegal immigration

Then, open borders.

VIVA LA LIBERTARIANISM or something

+1

Heavily armed borders keep you and me in as well as "the other" out.

The unintended consequences of a heavily militarized border need to be considered.

[lupinus]

I am intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter

Can we get a group buy going?

I'd go even further and say that with some additional air assets, you could probably cut the COP in half. That's just an uneducated guess, of course, but if it proves to be to much man power I'm sure there are areas that could be trimmed a bit.

Beyond locking the border up tighter than a ducks ass in a cold pond, remove the incentive to come here illegally. No welfare and make it very, very expensive for employers to hire illegals.

Further remove incentive by getting an efficient program in place to allow decent people to come in and keep the undesirables out.

[Hawkmoon]

Hesco
CoP = Combat Outpost.

My age is showing. We still used sandbags when I was in Vietnam.

[grampster]

Dream on.

[Hawkmoon]

+1

Heavily armed borders keep you and me in as well as "the other" out.

The unintended consequences of a heavily militarized border need to be considered.

Why would any sane person ever want to go to Mexico -- near the border? Twenty years ago I met a guy on a plane trip back from some project site. The other guy had just been to Mexico. He said it was "interesting." His company had two armed security escorts meet him at the airport and drive him from there to his hotel. He was advised to not leave the hotel. The next morning, the two armed security dudes picked him up at the hotel and delivered him to whatever meeting or conference he was attending, then brought him back to the hotel. This went on for a week. On the last morning, the armed guards drove him back to the airport and escorted him through the terminal to the gate. That was twenty years ago.

Even Cancun isn't safe any more. My wife is Latina, and she has a cousin who is a professor at some university in Mexico City. Even he recently sold his old condo and relocated into a much more sturdily enclosed compound, with armed security, because HE isn't really safe. I wish he'd leave, but he has been there a long time so I guess he wants to stick it out 'til he retires.

I hope he makes it.

My wife says she'd like to visit Mexico again, but she also says there's no way I should go there. Which is fine with me, because I'd rather visit Scotland or Wales or Iceland.

[Ron]

Being fenced in and surrounded by military or federal police, what could possibly be wrong with that picture?