How would you start securing the Mex/U.S. border?

[RevDisk]

Just to throw another bomb into the mix... 

What about folks with chronic medical issues?


I'm honestly asking. Suppose I was crippled by a car upon walking out the front door, and the driver had no insurance. I get the feeling that some folks are "survival of the fittest", and would say "suffer and die" if I happened not to have medical coverage. If you aren't "suffer and die", then what limits?   

[AZRedhawk44]

Just to throw another bomb into the mix... 

What about folks with chronic medical issues?


I'm honestly asking. Suppose I was crippled by a car upon walking out the front door, and the driver had no insurance. I get the feeling that some folks are "survival of the fittest", and would say "suffer and die" if I happened not to have medical coverage. If you aren't "suffer and die", then what limits?   

I have a couple of friends in this situation right now.

One is diabetic and pretty much blind.  Living with his folks... he's in his early 40's and his parents are in their 80's and not long for this world.  He's like a big brother to me.  He will absolutely not be homeless.  He's got a place with me, any time.  A ride anywhere, anytime.  Anything I can give him, anytime.

The other is STILL recuperating from a knee surgery, out of short term disability and has no long term disability.  I'm staying with her 3 days a week, buying her groceries, taking her on errands, buying her medications.  My expenses while doing this are probably $400-$500 more a month than normal.


However, Rev... I refuse to compel YOU to pay for these two people.  They are valuable to me, but they aren't valuable to you.

Likewise, if a person can live their life in such a way that they elicit no compassion or love from their family or friends, why should society as a whole bear the brunt of keeping such a worthless person fed, sheltered, clothed?  Seriously?  If you lived your life so recklessly and vapidly that you have no meaningful relationships to depend upon, why should you be "guaranteed" safety?  No church relationships, no friends, no family, no lasting contributions to an employer that is particularly grateful... nothing.

Taxes are violence.

Is it worth committing violence on me to keep people fed/clothed that don't have value to people who could do so willingly?

[Waitone]

Great ideas!  Let's have a show of hands.  Who is up for a federal national ID to help implement some of these spiffy idea?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Rfid implants for all?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

[charby]

a.  Move.  I've done it twice for work.  Cross-country.

Takes money and resources for people to move, so how do you move the people to the jobs?

[kgbsquirrel]

Great ideas!  Let's have a show of hands.  Who is up for a federal national ID to help implement some of these spiffy idea?

I already have one. It's called a passport. Fun fact: it counts as legal proof of citizenship.


Edited for syntax.

[AZRedhawk44]

Takes money and resources for people to move, so how do you move the people to the jobs?

I did it as a poor schmuck with no money.

First time was in June of 2000, right after graduating from college.  Drove a 1986 Pontiac 6000 cross-country from Seattle to Dallas, firing on only 3 out of 4 cylinders.  Put everything I owned in that car, couldn't fit my guitar in with clothes and other necessaries so I sold the guitar. 

Second time was in December of 2000, from Dallas to PHX.  Same old Pontiac, still running on 3/4.  Even less in the car.  Had $15 to my name when I arrived in PHX.

Life's a bitch.  Move, or die.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

You had a car? Must be nice

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

[roo_ster]

think harder  there is a reason why they need the labor
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57551.html

The crops will rot in the fields!!111!!eleventy11!!
This comes up every time, but then, oddly, doesn't actually happen.  Raise wages until folks become interested in doing the job.  It costs the final consumer pennies.  The less the Sloth Subsidy, the quicker folk become interested.

[kgbsquirrel]

The crops will rot in the fields!!111!!eleventy11!!
This comes up every time, but then, oddly, doesn't actually happen.  Raise wages until folks become interested in doing the job.  It costs the final consumer pennies.  The less the Sloth Subsidy, the quicker folk become interested.

My very, VERY, first job, ever, was picking strawberries in the fields just north of Eugene, Oregon. I 16, and it was about half-n-half "migrant laborers" and locals, so the whole premise of "jobs Americans wont do" is a great big hurking pile of bovine effluent.

Oh, as to the pay, it started out paying $2.50 per flat of picked strawberries. This was in '96. If you were quick (and thorough) you could fill a flat in about 20-30 minutes. This turned into $2.00 a flat after a couple of the "migrant laborers" filled the bottoms of their flats with dirt clods, and topped them with strawberries to look normal. Was kinda curious why two guys turned in nearly twice as many tickets for pay at the end of the day as everyone else combined (about 8 other people). Those two fellas were also gone the next day when the pay decrease was announced and why. Transportation to the job site was by bicycle about 15 miles or so, nothing overly taxing.

[roo_ster]

Likewise, if a person can live their life in such a way that they elicit no compassion or love from their family or friends, why should society as a whole bear the brunt of keeping such a worthless person fed, sheltered, clothed?  Seriously?  If you lived your life so recklessly and vapidly that you have no meaningful relationships to depend upon, why should you be "guaranteed" safety?  No church relationships, no friends, no family, no lasting contributions to an employer that is particularly grateful... nothing.

Taxes are violence.

Is it worth committing violence on me to keep people fed/clothed that don't have value to people who could do so willingly?

I might be a bit more of a loftier-thinking, nice-guy magnanimous softy, willing to have agents of the gov't shoot people in the face so they can pay the freight for my sensibilities.  There is no contradiction in that?  Nah.

But, good point.  Being independent-minded is not the same as being anti-social and misanthropic.  If you expect to be treated well when you are down & out, treat those around you well when they are in a tight spot. If one lives one's life as an irascible loner who despises others, expect to die an irascible loner.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

imagination  "This comes up every time, but then, oddly, doesn't actually happen."
vs reality  http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0929/Alabama-life-already-changing-under-tough-immigration-law

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-24/africans-relocate-to-alabama-to-fill-jobs-after-immigration-law

[charby]

Life's a bitch.  Move, or die.

So Einstein, tell us how a poor inner-city person with no car would be able to move to a job in say ND?

[birdman]

So Einstein, tell us how a poor inner-city person with no car would be able to move to a job in say ND?

Bus + walk.

If life were easy, Obama would be president.

[charby]

Bus + walk.

If life were easy, Obama would be president.

So how are they going to live there once they get there until they get thier 1st pay check?

Motels cost money, you need deposits to rent apartments, etc.

[kgbsquirrel]

So how are they going to live there once they get there until they get thier 1st pay check?

Motels cost money, you need deposits to rent apartments, etc.

http://www.homelessshelterdirectory.org/northdakota.html

[charby]

http://www.homelessshelterdirectory.org/northdakota.html

I bet those are funded by government money,  under AZred's plan those would be gone. Try again.

[kgbsquirrel]

I bet those are funded by government money,  under AZred's plan those would be gone. Try again.

You bet, or you know? Try again.

[roo_ster]

Private groups have been known to provide shelter to the needy. 

I recall my church bought and renovated a house for a Vietnamese refugee family when I was a kid. I got to do sledgehammer demo at the age of 7.  A church I used to attend runs a homeless shelter downtown in the Big City.  Bigger/more capacity than the one built by Big City Gov't.  For a fraction of the cost.  I know the folks who run it and if you are interested in helping out, they could use it:
http://www.dallaslife.org/services/shelter/
http://www.dallaslife.org/ways-to-help/

[MicroBalrog]

Here's the deal.

You know what? I don't mind paying a little extra taxes.

I am unlikely to ever live in a society with no taxes at all, so I don't feel like haggling on the amount of taxes I pay. Fine, I will pay 13% and not 10%.
(Thomas Jefferson considered 1.5% high - in a society that had the state provide for the poor and for public education.)

But:

1. Once we agree to that, who's to stop them from demanding 14%, 20%, 30%, 50%?
2. And this one is more important.

Let's say I agree to pay, say, for the health care of the poor. Totally cool.

And for the children of the poor to be educated. Don't want to throw them out in the street.

So, now, when Maid Marian and Robin Hood spawn fifteen children, I pay for their schooling. And when Friar Took rides his motorbike without a helmet and gets brain-damaged, I pay for his health care.

Sounds like I have the perfect reason to force Took to wear a helmet. After all, he's accepting my health care, he can't turn down my benevolent directions. You take the king's coin...

And this is how this goes down. Now that we've accepted to be the recipients of the state's largesse - and even if you are sworn on the altar of god to never take welfare, I can't know that you won't lose both your legs tomorrow in a freak accident and are not driven to the ER which I also subsidize with my taxes.

By accepting this, you have given the taxpayer class - the nine-to-five, tie-wearing Rockwell painting characters, and the caring coastal liberals alike - the perfect reason to be able to run your life. And they do.

Now, I do not owe anybody to keep supporting the welfare state. Receiving money from the govrenment is not a right. Certainly the state can continue giving it - some US states even have a right to free education as part of their constitution - but certainly we can stop at any time.

I am completely happy to abolish all welfare - even if some people suffer from it the short-term or even in the long-term - if that is the cost of getting my freedom back.

[charby]

You bet, or you know? Try again.

Try clicking on some of those cities, all the ones I looked at said: "We did not find any shelters within a 30 mile radius of <city>.
Please click back on your web browser and search another city"

Tiago, ND is the center of the oil boom, I didn't see that listed on your list.

Also saw a lot of .gov links on that website, many were ads for HUD.

[Tallpine]

I don't think there are many manual farm labor jobs in North Dakota.

It's either cattle, or large field operations with big tractors and harvesters.

[charby]

I don't think there are many manual farm labor jobs in North Dakota.

It's either cattle, or large field operations with big tractors and harvesters.

I was thinking manual labor oil field jobs.

[Tallpine]

I was thinking manual labor oil field jobs.

Those are not all that easy to get without some experience, or at least a previous work history of doing something.

And there is a terrible housing shortage.  Guys are living in campers and cars and whatever they can find.  The manufactured housing industry in Billings is doing a booming business building and/or shipping stuff to NW ND.

[charby]

Bus + walk.

If life were easy, Obama would be president.

Buses don't go everywhere either, some places not very close and buses take money to ride.