An Unspeakable Tale of Woe

[Moondoggie]

I'll try to make this as brief as possible, but I'm suffering some of life's vesisitudes and I'm looking for any ideas that anybody might have...or at least some balm for my wounded psyche.

A few yrs ago my wife and I got ripped-off for $13,000 in a trucking business deal.  A scumbag that we were leased to with our truck went out of business due to his own stupidity and simply kept our money.  Told us to piss off, we'd never collect a nickle, yada, yada, yada.

OK, so we hire a lawyer in his county in MN and sued him.  We live two states away (500 miles) so everything was done long distance with our lawyer after our initial meeting.

It took about 6 months to get a judgement against him & his wife.  They weren't incorporated.  They lied, stalled, smoke screened during the legal process but our evidence was ironclad and indisputable.

They lied, stalled, smoke screened, etc to keep us from collecting on our judgement.  We finally succeded in collecting $2,400 via a garnishment of wages and proceeds from the sale of a piece of land that they hadn't disclosed in court documents.  The county caught the judgement during the title search and seized the profit for us via the escrow company.

Our atty calls to say that he's been contacted by scumbag's bankruptcy atty...they are going to file Chapeter 11.  Our atty says we ought to hold off on further collection attempts and see if they're just trying another smokescreen.

Our unrecovered legal fees up to this point:  $4,000.  What 'ya gonna do?

Coincidentally, we managed to have the MN DOT audit scumbag's trucking company.  The result was that he was put out of business and declared "Permanently Uninsurable"...stake through the heart.  Small glow of satisfaction.

A couple of months later, we get notified that they did file Chap 11 to have our judgement against them discharged.  Funny thing is, there's only 3 days left out of the 60 day period to object when we recieve notification.  There was a hearing that we could have appeared at, but it happened 3 wks prior to us being notified.  Here's the kicker; out of all the creditors, we're the largest by a factor of 6X yet we weren't added to the list until it's too late for us to object/contest the discharge.  Actually, because the debt arose out of a trucking situation there are several grounds for us to contest this under Federal Law and appeals court decisions.  I attempted to contact the bankruptcy trustee but, "Gee, sorry, too late...it's already gone to the Federal Bankruptcy Judge for discharge.  Nothing can be done at this point."  I found out later that the Judge actually signed the order of discharge of indebtedness on the 60th day after the petition was filed.  They sure work promplty for scumbags!  We were sandbagged, bigtime!  However, I'm convinced that we were the catalyst in the bankruptcy equation and scumbag lives in a town of 200 folks...another small glow of satisfaction.

Now we get to the fun part.  We start getting letters from scumbag's bankruptcy atty...You illegally siezed my clients property (money) during bankruptcy; per rule 903 & 904, kindly return the $2,400 immediately.  Quite a pair they've got!

I consult a local atty about this.  He tells me to just blow them off.  If they want their $2,400 they'll have to come down here and sue me for it, which isn't likely.  This consultation happened about 2 yrs ago.

Today I receive a certified letter from scumbag's atty notifying that they are petitioning the state court in MN to have our judgement set aside as a result of the Chap 11 discharge.   I'm pretty sure this is the opening salvo in another round of "We want our $2,400 back".  Hopefully, I can return the favor on running up their legal bills.

This has been going on for almost 4 yrs now, you'd think scumbag would just let it go.

The overview is that despite the financial hit that we took, we have prospered (through a lot of hard work) and recovered nicely.  Will it hurt me financially to write this POS a check for $2,400?  Nope.  Am I in any way willing to write that check?  Also nope.

I think we have grounds to complain to the Fed Bankruptcy Judge that the atty played fast and loose with the rules in order to sandbag us.  Since my congresscritter is on the small business committee, I'm thinking about dropping him a line to see if I can get him to look into the bankruptcy court abridging the rights of creditors to object.

And yes, I've thought about paying this scumbag a personal visit (many, many times), but I have no desire to live on prison chow.

The moral of the story is that although you play by the rules and try to live an honorable life, "The System" is not necessarily going to work in a way that most of us "common folks" think is right.

Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions?

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

Have your lawyer review the situation to ensure that you can be held harmless, then write it off to experience, and don't spend another moment of your conscious life thinking about this.  It's already cost you too much in stress and bile.

If necessary (and your attorney suggests), send a registered letter to HIS attorneys saying that any further communication should be done through your attorney.

Nothing good will come from any continuation.

IANAL, and standard disclaimers apply.

[280plus]

Yea, Fig's got it right. Funny, the guy I just hired and then fired 2 months later also ran his own failed truck business. He said fuel put him out of business but now that I know him better I'll bet he's not too unlike the one YOU ran into. Fortunately I got his number before he cost me too much. Don't you love the way the law protects these types so that they can continue on their merry way. In reality it's almost like legalized fraud. They go bankrupt under one name and then turn around and start all over under another. Time after time. I won't bore you with construction stories but I've known many people, contractors AND buyers, who got screwed out of lots of cash by one "builder" or another. I have too but never for very much, I've learned to not let them get too far ahead on me. I ran a "slush" fund when I was in the Navy. You learn all about people and collecting from them doing that. As a matter of fact this just reminded me of my own little scumbag that owes me $1,100 from work I did. I forgot to fill out the latest collection agency papers!

Collection agencies are nothing but PIA's themselves, plus they get half the money if they ever collect.

[Bogie]

Look at the bright side...

"Dear Moondoggie: This truck you provided to my client was defective, and broke down. While attempting a repair, he skinned the knuckle of his left hand. Due to pain and suffering from this event...."

[Moondoggie]

Yeah, Bogie, there's always a bright side, I guess.  In this case my wife and I were doing the driving/fixing/etc on our own truck.

In trying to put it into perspective, the total loss was only about 2.5 weeks of revenue...so it's not the end of the world.

In the bankruptcy matrix, the scumbag also listed about 20K in fines/penalites to the State of MN and the DOT, which aren't eligible for discharge.  So he's still stuck paying for the results of the audit that we triggered.  That's some satisfiction for the good guys.

I had some contact with another trucker that got screwed by these scumbags at the same time as us.  He lived up in their county and knew a lot of stuff about about these folks.  He got our cell # from a post-it note when he was in their office one day.  Before things went south, the wife had told this guy all about my wife and I.  He was a former Marine with 10 yrs svc, so we had a lot in common.  He was a great source of inside intel once things went adversarial.

The scumbags started their trucking enterprise using $100K of inheritence from the wife's grandmother.  Husband just went out and bought a truck & trailer without consulting the wife.    The wife told me this during a conversation too before things went south...we used to chat quite a bit when we were talking about loads, etc.  2 yrs later, it's all gone and they're doing the bankruptcy thing for all their friends and family to see.  I'm told that this was a major blow to his psyche and a source of dirision from his sisters who had both married very successful guys...a little more satisfaction.

I've been thinking about sending a series of cards to their house addressed to the wife (or the husband).  Something along the lines of "Hey, hotstuff...I can't wait for the next time, you were incredible."  Make up a name, mail them from out on the road or have a friend from that general area drop them in a mailbox for me.  She was the one running the books and lying through her teeth to string us along as far as possible so she's fair game in my book.  They won't let this go over a period of 4 yrs, so I'm thinking there's no requirement on my part to keep the gloves on.

Mind games...I can do that with the best of 'em.

[The Rabbi]

My wife works for a bankruptcy trustee so sees this stuff all the time.

If he was unincorporated then he cannot file a Chap 11.  He must go Chap 7.  If he paid you (even involuntarily) before he bankrupted then I believe that counts as a "preferential payment" and yes, you must return the money.  You get paid out with the rest of the unsecured creditors.
My bet though, given that the BK has already discharged, is that no one is going to pursue you for $2500.  I know my wife's boss regularly lets money like that in that situation go.  It just isnt worth it.
Only advice is to be more choosy who you do business with.
But I will run it by my wife when she gets home from the hospital and see what she says.

[Moondoggie]

Hey Rabbi, thanks for the input.

My lawyer also told me that it's unlikely that they'll pursue me for the $2400.  Their bankruptcy atty did this initially for a flat fee.  Any extras like pursuing us will undoubtedly entail additional legal fees.  I'm sure that their atty is sharp enough to require payment in advance, given their obvious track record.  I'm sure the scumbags are hell bent on revenge at any cost.

Another thing that I confirmed with my atty was that if they do pursue this to a court action, that we won't be responsible for their legal fees/court costs if we lose.  We know we won't win.  If it gets to the point where WE are served with documents requiring disclosure of assets available for seizure, I'll just write a check to be done with it.

These folks were incorporated when they filed bankruptcy, but they weren't when we signed our deal with them.  That was one of the dodges they tried during our court case..."We're incorporated, you'll have to sue our company, you can't sue us."  No soap.  We got our judgement against them as individuals.  I could be wrong about the Chap 11 vs. 7 thing...it's not an area that I deal in frequently.  I do know that they obtained a discharge of their indebtedness.  I'd have to dig out the box full of papers to check details.

I'm also thinking of writing an eloquent letter to the bankruptcy judge in Minneapolis about the tactics employed by their atty.  One atty  that I encountered online who specializes in trucking related issues happens to be from Minneapolis, knows this judge well and describes him as a "Good judge and a fair man".  From my military experience, I recognize fully that the judge rarely looks at any of the routine bankruptcy cases in any detail.  He relies upon the integrity of the trustees and the attys involved.  He just signs-off on a stack of files every day that his clerical staff put in front of him.  If I can succeed in getting my letter in front of the judge, at a minimum I think I can accomplish some increased scrutiny of this particular atty's cases in the future.  I'm also thinking of sending a similar letter to the Minnesota Bar.  If this atty colored outside the lines once, he's probably done it before and wil do it again.

[Waitone]

The law has nothing to do with right and wrong.  It is all about process.

Accept it.  Deal with it.  Move on.

Trust no one but yourself and your wife. . . . .and periodically backcheck her.

[Moondoggie]

I concur, Waitone.

I had moved on and thought this episode was a done deal almost 2 yrs ago.

Now we're getting more certified mail from their lawyer, which I assume is the prelude to further attempts to recover the money we collected on our judgement almost 3 yrs ago.

They don't seem to be letting go.