Anyone else notice we have a new proxy war with Russia?

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2013/may/28/eu-lifts-arms-embargo-on-syrian-rebels-live-updates

Russia is selling the Syrian government anti-aircraft missiles.

Meanwhile, McCain is meeting with the Syrian Rebels, and Britain/France want to sell arms to the rebels.

How long until we have a "police action" in Syria, do you think?

[Fitz]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2013/may/28/eu-lifts-arms-embargo-on-syrian-rebels-live-updates

Russia is selling the Syrian government anti-aircraft missiles.

Meanwhile, McCain is meeting with the Syrian Rebels, and Britain/France want to sell arms to the rebels.

How long until we have a "police action" in Syria, do you think?

I'll put it this way.


There's a possibility i'll take an IT contract in Djibouti supporting some knowledge management stuff. The idea of paying off my cars and having no mortgage in one year is appealing.

The contract language is being modified to include a caveat that "you may end up elsewhere *cough cough* SYRIA"


I think it's only a matter of time.

[SADShooter]

I think it is actually better described as a proxy war with Iran. The Russians are just milking the cow.

Where it goes, I don't know, but I have a hard time seeing this President authorize anything beyond (more) arms for the rebels and supportive drone strikes. Channeling my inner cynic, that could change if and only if the sound of impeachment drums is heard and the dog needs wagging. But that's admittedly a real stretch.

[French G.]

I don't know what the right answer is on Syria. It's an easy answer that the Alawite set are the badder of the many bad guys and probably just need to be removed from the gene pool. It is clear that Russia is defending their traditional sphere of influence and physical turf.(Naval base) Any arms we send are likely to arm Hezbollah eventually. Any arms russia sends, well, I'd hate to be the russian tech getting the s300s operational. They are going to have a very short life span. I consider the russian s300s to be an escalation because they have to know what is going to happen. Occupation, someone like Turkey, Jordan, and sadly Russia needs to step up. Not us. They want their little buddy, they need to keep them from pissing off Israel.

[Azrael256]

Since the Soviets like to use the same names for everything, are these SA-10s or one of the eleven bazillion newer models?

[just Warren]

Cool, apparently we have a surplus of democracy here so why not export some of it?

[AJ Dual]

Yeah, lets go liberate the *expletive deleted*it out of some more people that know nothing about it or want it. 

[De Selby]

Al Qaeda and its affiliates are the main revolutionaries against Asad and his Alawhite/Chrisitian coalition - how smart is this policy again?

[Fitz]

Al Qaeda and its affiliates are the main revolutionaries against Asad and his Alawhite/Chrisitian coalition - how smart is this policy again?

BUT BUT BUT

ITS A GOOD IDEA TO REMOVE REGIMES WE DONT LIKE AND REPLACE THEM WITH ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS!

[lupinus]

BUT BUT BUT

ITS A GOOD IDEA TO REMOVE REGIMES WE DONT LIKE AND REPLACE THEM WITH ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS!

Of course!

Seriously though, if that isn't reason enough for McCain to sit down and STFU I don't know what is.

But then, I suppose we can't be bothered to vet potential foreign gov'ts better than our own domestic leaders. 

[MechAg94]

Of course!

Seriously though, if that isn't reason enough for McCain to sit down and STFU I don't know what is.

But then, I suppose we can't be bothered to vet potential foreign gov'ts better than our own domestic leaders. 

Hmmm......McCain or the Russians?   

Can I take "None of the Above"?

[Viking]

So, who supplies weapons to the rebels? Any official/legal sources, or have the EU and the US simply chosen to look the other way while black market dealers bring the stuff in?

[SADShooter]

So, who supplies weapons to the rebels? Any official/legal sources, or have the EU and the US simply chosen to look the other way while black market dealers bring the stuff in?

That's a vital question, to which I haven't seen a definitive answer. I'm skeptical of the notion that the fight has ground on with the rebels only having access to "liberated" Syrian Army equipment.

[Nick1911]

That's a vital question, to which I haven't seen a definitive answer. I'm skeptical of the notion that the fight has ground on with the rebels only having access to "liberated" Syrian Army equipment.

My guess would be events such as the 20,000 M16's that were "stolen" from a US warehouse in Kuwait; an event which occurred when magically no guards were on duty.

Scratch that, appears I was misinformed by an erroneous report; it was actually only ammo stolen, which is far less impressive.  http://news.kuwaittimes.net/2013/04/07/20000-m-16-rifle-rounds-stolen-from-moi-warehouse/

Yea, good question.  It seems that someone somewhere has to be quietly moving hardware into the fight.

[SADShooter]

My guess would be events such as the 20,000 M16's that were "stolen" from a US warehouse in Kuwait; an event which occurred when magically no guards were on duty.

I'm not generally a tinfoil hatter, but my ample gut tells me this is somehow connected to Benghazi. I.e. why was Ambassador Stevens there in the first place, and why the administration was so desperate to conceal the facts?

[Fitz]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/29/syria-visit-steels-mccains-resolve/

[AJ Dual]

I'm not generally a tinfoil hatter, but my ample gut tells me this is somehow connected to Benghazi. I.e. why was Ambassador Stevens there in the first place, and why the administration was so desperate to conceal the facts?

May not have anything to do with Bhengazi directly, but could be the next desired "Wag the Dog" distraction for everything that's going on. McCain is addled enough, and a "Third-way/bipartisan" sellout enough to go along.

Personally, in regards to what's gone on in the 2000's... my foreign policy would be heavy on the "Shock and Awe", kill people, break all their things, and light to absolutely nonexistent on the nation building/occupation.

Situations like Syria, where both sides have a nominal antipathy for Western Civ, give arms and intel to both sides to maximize the grinding down. Or match arms and Intel as evenly as possible if one side is being supplied by an enemy.

Honetrap Russia and China into as many quagmires as possible.

[roo_ster]

May not have anything to do with Bhengazi directly, but could be the next desired "Wag the Dog" distraction for everything that's going on. McCain is addled enough, and a "Third-way/bipartisan" sellout enough to go along.

Personally, in regards to what's gone on in the 2000's... my foreign policy would be heavy on the "Shock and Awe", kill people, break all their things, and light to absolutely nonexistent on the nation building/occupation.

Situations like Syria, where both sides have a nominal antipathy for Western Civ, give arms and intel to both sides to maximize the grinding down. Or match arms and Intel as evenly as possible if one side is being supplied by an enemy.

Honetrap Russia and China into as many quagmires as possible.

Indeed.

[RevDisk]

Situations like Syria, where both sides have a nominal antipathy for Western Civ, give arms and intel to both sides to maximize the grinding down. Or match arms and Intel as evenly as possible if one side is being supplied by an enemy.

Didn't go well with the Iran-Iraq war, bro.

[AJ Dual]

Didn't go well with the Iran-Iraq war, bro.

Agreed. Just whenever it's actually a good idea. (And determining what is a "good idea" is no easy thing...) Letting it lie or not even bothering would be my default position in many instances.

OTOH, who knows where Iran would be without the culling and the expense of the Iraq/Iran war? Their populace might be even more supportive of the regime. They may have had even more money/time/energy to mess with oil-politics, nuclear program... whatever.

It would be part of a much broader platform of eliminating foreign aid, reducing whatever we give to the U.N. to an average of the perm. Sec. council's members contributions. Also evaluate pulling out completely vs. the merits of the "keep the tiger by the tail and keep our Sec. Council veto/vote" argument some make.

[roo_ster]

Didn't go well with the Iran-Iraq war, bro.

Really?  Kept both busy for what, eight or more years?  Killed a whole lot of their troops on both sides and ate up their oil revenues like crazy.  That is as close to a win you are going to find in this age where winning has been outlawed.

The only permanent solution is what the Romans did to Carthage.  Until we have the sack to do that, temporary reprieves are the best that can be hoped for.

In Syria, I am rooting for the Bastard Bashar Assad to win out after a decade or more of desperately clinging on by his fingernails and being too occupied surviving to give anyone else much trouble.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

HAHAHAHAHA

I suggested this very thing in a hare-brained, late night, 15-minute whiskey-inspired essay on a CIA application.
Clearly I should've applied to the State Department instead.

And I'm going to sue Hillary for stealing my horrible ideas without attribution.

[MicroBalrog]

Help me here.

What benefit is Syria going to reap from S-300 missiles?

Their senior command is known for ordering air defense troops to hold fire and avoid engaging IAF planes that are actually bombing their various osstes.

If the Syrian commanders are either too cowardly or too corrupt (perhaps Israel bribes them) to actually fire at enemy aviation engaged in the act of bombing their country, what good is better air defense technology going to do?

[De Selby]

Help me here.

What benefit is Syria going to reap from S-300 missiles?

Their senior command is known for ordering air defense troops to hold fire and avoid engaging IAF planes that are actually bombing their various osstes.

If the Syrian commanders are either too cowardly or too corrupt (perhaps Israel bribes them) to actually fire at enemy aviation engaged in the act of bombing their country, what good is better air defense technology going to do?

The benefit they will get is Russians at the sites - which Israel won't risk hitting.

[MicroBalrog]

Are there actual Russian crew at the launch sites?