Drone hunting season

[Stetson]

http://www.krdo.com/news/colorado-town-considers-dronehunting-licenses/-/417220/21014798/-/i1sl9bz/-/index.html

Deer Trail, Colorado (small town) is thinking about offering a drone hunting license and paying bounties to hunters that shoot them down.

[AZRedhawk44]

Somehow I don't think a 12ga with #7 is going to bring down a Predator.

And launching 20mm AA rounds into the air domestically is frowned upon.

ETA:  Sounds like Cuba has an old Fan Song SAM array I could pick up cheap, though.   

[charby]

Somehow I don't think a 12ga with #7 is going to bring down a Predator.

A 3.5" 12gauge with BB shot will drop a 25Lb goose at 50ish yards.

You do know that there are larger shot sizes that #7 that are commercially available at the local big box store.

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.military-history.org/articles/predator-drone-specifications.htm

At 1100 pounds empty (2200 pounds fully loaded) and a ceiling of 25,000 feet, it's a big goose.  And out of range of your 3.5" magnum duck gun.

[charby]

http://www.military-history.org/articles/predator-drone-specifications.htm

At 1100 pounds empty (2200 pounds fully loaded) and a ceiling of 25,000 feet, it's a big goose.  And out of range of your 3.5" magnum duck gun.

Not all drones are that big.

[TechMan]

Not all drones are that big.

Ayep, remember this: http://www.suasnews.com/2012/11/19719/activists-drone-shot-out-of-the-sky-for-fourth-time/

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZgk1cRqAfs

[Nick1911]

Ayep, remember this: http://www.suasnews.com/2012/11/19719/activists-drone-shot-out-of-the-sky-for-fourth-time/

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZgk1cRqAfs

Honest question: Do actual military/leo/government drones typically run within the altitude range that overlaps the effective range of a shotgun?  Seems to me that a shotgun might be good for 150 yards, and that 450ft AGL is considered very, very low for an aircraft to operate.

[French G.]

If drone use becomes widespread here I hope that counter technology becomes widespread. Soft kill with enough laser to disrupt sensors, EM disruption, even intentional collisions of RC AC and drones.

[Frank Castle]

This will work . But i can't talk about !


http://www.amazon.com/Ew-101-Electronic-Warfare-Library/dp/1580531695/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374086606&sr=1-1&keywords=ew

[Ben]

Honest question: Do actual military/leo/government drones typically run within the altitude range that overlaps the effective range of a shotgun?  Seems to me that a shotgun might be good for 150 yards, and that 450ft AGL is considered very, very low for an aircraft to operate.

Yes. SUASs do all the time in COA and military airspace (which can overlap with public use space) depending on their mission, which can sometimes have nothing to do with human surveillance. I won't go into details on an open forum, but for many airframes, a shotgun is not an effective weapon.

[AZRedhawk44]

Additional thoughts:

1. This is a town declaring the engagement of airborne drones with shoulder-weapons to be "sporting."  Implications on 1986, 1968, 1934 laws?
2. Aside from #1, this is morally repulsive.  Here's why:

This is not hunting for food.  This is not hunting for Boone and Crockett honors.  If shooting drones down is a good thing, then the town needs to say it is a good thing.  Not charge hunters for a license to do it.

This is coupling a politically charged and unpopular topic with revenue raising techniques.  Lots of people will go out and buy a "drone tag" and the money will go to the town's coffers, which has nothing to do with drone management. 

If they really want to go on record on this, they need to have "shoot to kill" orders for all drones over town.  Police and the rest of us.  See something, shoot something.

Not make a spectacle and nooz guffaw out of it.

[charby]

Yes. SUASs do all the time in COA and military airspace (which can overlap with public use space) depending on their mission, which can sometimes have nothing to do with human surveillance. I won't go into details on an open forum, but for many airframes, a shotgun is not an effective weapon.

Any active shot gunner would know that, even at point blank range a shotgun would be pretty weak on the larger drones, but I think a goose load would be quite effective on the smaller drones like in this article.

http://rt.com/usa/san-diego-department-drone-107/

[Ben]

Any active shot gunner would know that, even at point blank range a shotgun would be pretty weak on the larger drones, but I think a goose load would be quite effective on the smaller drones like in this article.

http://rt.com/usa/san-diego-department-drone-107/

You would be surprised.

[RoadKingLarry]

Any active shot gunner would know that, even at point blank range a shotgun would be pretty weak on the larger drones, but I think a goose load would be quite effective on the smaller drones like in this article.

http://rt.com/usa/san-diego-department-drone-107/

Scaled down barrage balloons, bolo rounds.

[Jocassee]

Clearly the answer here is to just shoot them on the ground.

[dogmush]

Is it legal to run a bunch of heat lamps to bait them in?

[AZRedhawk44]

Is it legal to run a bunch of heat lamps to bait them in?

I love you guys.

[never_retreat]

Plant a whole field of Cleome. Wait till they come in low and slow. Then you know.

[MechAg94]

Outside of shotguns, is their a bullet design that would offer decent range out of the barrel that would then slow down enough on its downward arc to be non-lethal?  (Assuming you are not firing at a low angle)

[230RN]

It's symbolic, per the article.  With symbolic charges for the license, just like a "real" one.  

Great "pull the ticket from your wallet to show off and get some laughs" stuff.

Like the symbolic proposals for several counties in NE Colorado to cecede from Colorado and form their own state.

It's all tongue-in-cheek, but underlying it is a strong and growing resentment of the dominance of urban and beltway politics which affect the rural way of life and attitudes.

This needed to be said.

In words.

[roo_ster]

Honest question: Do actual military/leo/government drones typically run within the altitude range that overlaps the effective range of a shotgun?  Seems to me that a shotgun might be good for 150 yards, and that 450ft AGL is considered very, very low for an aircraft to operate.

Generally speaking, the smaller the drone, the lower it flies when doing recon.  Just a function of payload.  Smaller drones can carry less mass, less mass implies a less capable sensor package, less capable sensor means you gotta get closer to see objects of interest.

The smallest fixed-wing platforms I have seen that can carry video for FPV or aerial photography are roughly 1 ounce.  That is about 30-40 grams with camera.  Made from EPS or EPO foam with nano/ultra-micro size RC hardware.  Something like this is definitely in peril from Dick Cheney's fancy-pants 28ga SxS. 
Example: http://www.parkzone.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PKZU1580

Code: [Select]

Wingspan: 16.5 in (419.1mm)
Overall Length: 13.6 in (346.1mm)
Flying Weight: 1.34 oz (38.0g)
Motor Size: 8.5mm Brushed
Radio: 4+ Channel DSM2 Transmitter required
CG (center of gravity): 32mm back from LE at root
Prop Size: 130mm x 70mm
Recommended Battery: 3.7V 120mAh 1S LiPo
Aileron: Yes
Elevator: Yes
Rudder: Yes
Throttle: Yes
Flaps: No
Retracts: No
Approx. Flying Duration: 6 minutes
Scale: Ultra Micro
Steering: Yes
Minimum Age Recommendation: 14 years
Experience Level: Intermediate
Recommended Environment: Indoor/Outdoor
Is Assembly Required: NoI own one of these.  If there is no/little breeze, it is a hoot to fly.  Full 4-ch aerobatics.

The smallest rotor-wing platforms up the mass to ~2 ounces.  Still can be knocked down like a lawyer at a dove hunt.
Example: http://www.bladehelis.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLH2480#quickSpecs

Code: [Select]

Type: Ultra micro coaxial helicopter
Main Rotor Diameter: 7.5 in (190mm)
Gross Weight: 1.0 oz (28 g)
Length: 7.9 in (200mm); Height: 4.7 in (120mm)
Motor Size: Micro coreless (2 installed)
Kit/ARF/RTF: BNF
Control System: 5-in-1 receiver/servos/mixer/ESCs/gyro (installed)
Experience Level: Beginner
Recommended Environment: Indoor
Is Assembly Required: NoI own one of these.  It is a coax heli, so it can not handle any breeze, but still capable of toting the smallest sensor payloads.  A collective pitch nano/ultra-micro heli like this (http://www.bladehelis.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=BLH3680) can handle a lot more wind.

Example: http://www.bladehelis.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=BLH7580#quickSpecs

Code: [Select]

Type: Quad-Copter
Main Rotor Diameter: 5.5 in (140mm)
Gross Weight: 2.65 oz (75.0 g)
Length: 11.5 in (292mm)
Motor Size: (4) 8.5mm brushed
Kit/ARF/RTF: BNF
Minimum Age Recommendation: 14 years
Experience Level: Intermediate
Recommended Environment: Indoor/Outdoor
Is Assembly Required: NoI plan to get one of these.  They come in smaller packages, below two ounces.  These handle a lot more wind.

These can easily tote a semi-custom 320×240 digital video cams.  By "semi-custom" I mean a cheap gumpack camera disassembled to lose case weight and using the RC aircraft's battery for power.  They get bigger & more capable from there.  A few more ounces and you are talking 720p or 1080p.


Arlington, Texas, PD has a drone:
http://www.arlingtonpd.org/AviationUnit/index.html

What are the specifics of the equipment used by the Aviation Unit?
Arlington purchased two small helicopters using federal grant funds. They are battery-operated helicopters that carry consumer grade camera/video equipment and are best suited for situations that require less than an hour flight time due to battery limitations. Each aircraft weighs 11 pounds, is approximately 58 inches long, and 20 inches high.

When and where can the Aviation Unit fly?
At this point, the aircraft can only be flown during daylight hours and less than 400 feet above ground. The small helicopter must be flown within line of sight of the officer who is remotely piloting the helicopter, which essentially means it must be flown in the general area where it takes off. The equipment has to be driven to the incident scene and unloaded after a clearly defined incident perimeter has been established. The police department is not allowed to fly directly over crowds such as football games or parades. Flying north of Interstate Highway 30 is also currently prohibited due to the proximity to the Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport.

APD has been one of the better run PDs around here.  Their idea was to essentially mimic manned heli operations on a smaller scale and for much less $$$$.  Reading what they got and how htey plan to operate, these guys are Doing It Right, IMO.

This could still be brought down by stout duck & goose loads.  One pellet into either rotor and say "buh-bye" as the carbon fiber blades shatter.  Same for a pellet in the area of the swash plate, the Rx, or ESC.  Might even get fireworks if you penetrate the lithium polymer battery.  A dedicated 2.4GHz jammer/source could also disrupt the bugger and cost Arlington taxpayers  some serious $$$.

The smallest .mil drones are fixed wing and in this weight class, maybe +10lbs.

[charby]

A new hobby for adventurous teens, drone seeking rockets.

http://www.estesrockets.com/rockets/

Well it would take a lot ingenuity from a teenage to develop such a rocket, but as a teen with friends we got pretty good a launching model rockets at fixed targets.

[AZRedhawk44]

Charby, I was under the impression that guidance systems on model rockets is a ginormous no-no.  Federal PMITA prison type of no-no.

[charby]

Charby, I was under the impression that guidance systems on model rockets is a ginormous no-no.  Federal PMITA prison type of no-no.

Since when has laws stopped teenagers. :)

We used math to hit fixed targets when we were teens. Similar to shooting long distances with a rifle.

[RoadKingLarry]

We used math

Obviously an elitist, racist plot to keep down the dark skinned races.