Generator

[castle key]

I lose power often in my house and I am looking at getting a generator. I am looking for help in figuring out what I need.

I have natural gas service at my house.

I would like to be able to power the AC in the Summer, a big freezer, the kitchen refrigerator, the stove or oven (electric), a couple of outlets, tv set or computer, and in the Winter, the furnace blower (gas heat).

A bit more juice would be nice but not huge.

I am pretty certain that I need a permenently mounted unit, transfer switching system, a sub panel, and a few other odds and ends.

The main stuff I am looking for is what brands of generators I should consider and how much "beef" the unit should have to run what I want to run.

In the perfect world, I want to be the guy during the Summer who has the only house in the neighborhood with lights on and the AC cranking the temp so low that ice is forming on the windows while I sit there sipping a cool martini!!

Other than that, basic comfort would work also.

[AZRedhawk44]

You need a make-break-make transfer switch, for starters.  Complete disconnect of city power, and every circuit in your house then shifts to draw off your generator.

Given that most AC systems are on a 60 amp line, then the air handler is often another separate 60 amp line, I think you're looking at a 15,000 watt unit.

You'll want to go diesel for fuel storage stability.

Not sure how 240/120v requirements come into play in something like this.



ETA: I've had worksites with units like this.  A couple of datacenters with autoswitching diesel backup generator sets, and when I worked security at my college campus we had one for our office and radio system.  15,000 watts and bigger is basically mounted on a small trailer or a concrete pad and sized on par with an AC unit.

Crap like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Generac-GP-15-000-Watt-Gasoline-Powered-Portable-Generator-with-OHVI-Engine-5734/100662532

Won't cut it.  It'll work, but it'll have irregular output.  Your clocks will run funny.  Computers won't like it.

[castle key]

You'll want to go diesel for fuel storage stability.

I was thinking the natural gas type units would be best for me so I don't need to store fuel.

[AZRedhawk44]

I was thinking the natural gas type units would be best for me so I don't need to store fuel.

Good point.  That would work good too.

[K Frame]

Boudica and Quinn on side-by-side treadmills.

Power the neighborhood.

[Scout26]

If you forgo the AC and Electric stove your power requirements are greatly reduced.   I've got a 10Kw which is enough to power two sump pumps (bad weather generally being the reason we lose power here), the fridge and freezer.  I can also power my dialysis machine (with doesn't draw much).  To figure out what you need simply add up the wattage of everything you want to power and and 15%  (for start-up surges).  A rough, back of the envelope, pulling numbers out of my butt shows a 30-36Kw draw.  However, you can plug in your data and get better numbers here:

http://www.generac.com/Residential/Sizer/

[K Frame]

In this area, foregoing AC is not a good idea.

[Scout26]

You can live without AC.   Humans managed to for centuries.  

[castle key]

You can live with AC.   Humans managed to for centuries. 

But think of the big hairy hounds!! really, need ac for them...

[K Frame]

Oh sure we can.

But we also sure as hell don't want to.

[Fly320s]

I had a generator installed this winter. It is only a 8,000 watt portable, but it is enough to keep us warm and fed in the winter.

The switching system is cool. On the new subpanel, I throw only the switches I want powered. I don't have to touch the main breaker box. The subpanel also has a built in watt meter that shows my actual draw.

Castle Key, you'll need one of the small car-size engines and a professional installation.

[charby]

http://www.generac.com/Residential/HomeBackupSystems/

[RevDisk]

Figure out your utilization. Either from adding up all of your necessary appliances, or by looking at your power bill and juggling the math. Add 10% ish. 20% if you have the cash. Should put you in the 20Kw ish range.

Decide if you want automated or manual. Automated is nice, but more expensive. Either way, you'll need an electrician to do the install.

[zxcvbob]

I get along okay with a 2800W (115V only) generator-inverter, but I have to be careful how many things I turn on at the same time, and don't use things like the microwave or electric toaster or coffeemaker.  I've done a few practice runs to make sure.  Never really needed the generator for more than half a day here.

Whatever you get, natural gas is the way to go -- or multifuel as long as that includes NG and propane.  My generator is gasoline-only, and it sucks trying to keep fresh gas rotated and stored.  (I should get a NG conversion kit... but I don't have NG piped to the garage or back yard, and I so seldom need a generator it's hardly worth it)

[K Frame]

I think the longest Castle Key has ever lost power was a bit over a week after an ice storm in the mid 1990s. They had a fireplace and lots of wood, but it went on long enough that we were making plans for draining the water lines in the house because the core temp was starting to get too low to sustain.

They suffered through several days of incredible heat after last year's Derecho, though.

[Tallpine]

What's the probability of losing both electric and NG 

[RevDisk]

What's the probability of losing both electric and NG  

 

Some of us remember the Big One of '11. The devastation. The horror. There are rumors that DC resorted to cannibalism following the quake.

[Hutch]

If you are absolutely committed to your current lifestyle (AC, electric stove/oven/water heat), you're gonna pay a ton.  20kw might not be enough, without careful attention to when the stuff is running.  If you include a dryer... well hell, you've prob'ly got a 200amp service entrance to the house.  x 220v, you're looking at theoretical max of 40kw plus.

If you can afford THAT... knock yourself out.  You'll be the life of the party when the power fails, for sure.

Per an earlier question, if there's a no-poop-this-is-the-end sort of grid-down outage lasting more than a day or two, expect the NG to quit flowing as well for physical, political, and social reasons.

[RoadKingLarry]

ETA: I've had worksites with units like this.  A couple of datacenters with autoswitching diesel backup generator sets, and when I worked security at my college campus we had one for our office and radio system.  15,000 watts and bigger is basically mounted on a small trailer or a concrete pad and sized on par with an AC unit.

All my worksites have backup gen sets. One little wide spot town had a problem severeal years ago with power feeding the town, our generator was kicking on a couple times a week. I'd get dispatched to verify proper operation. One afternoon I pulled up and the old fellow from next door was all over me about it. He was pissed because everytime our generator came on they lost power.

[K Frame]

"Per an earlier question, if there's a no-poop-this-is-the-end sort of grid-down outage lasting more than a day or two, expect the NG to quit flowing as well for physical, political, and social reasons."

As I noted earlier, they've lost power for close to a week a couple of times in the years that they've lived there.

They've never lacked for hot water, though, as the natural gas has continue to flow unabated.

A coworker of mine some years ago did lose power and natural gas after the storm surge from Hurricane Isabel in 2003? got up into their community and wreaked more than a little havoc. But Castle Key's place is more than high enough to avoid that happening.

Unless the polar ice caps melt.

And then Castle Key, Mtnbkr, and I are all in a world of hurt.

[charby]

If you are absolutely committed to your current lifestyle (AC, electric stove/oven/water heat), you're gonna pay a ton.  20kw might not be enough, without careful attention to when the stuff is running.  If you include a dryer... well hell, you've prob'ly got a 200amp service entrance to the house.  x 220v, you're looking at theoretical max of 40kw plus.

If you can afford THAT... knock yourself out.  You'll be the life of the party when the power fails, for sure.

Per an earlier question, if there's a no-poop-this-is-the-end sort of grid-down outage lasting more than a day or two, expect the NG to quit flowing as well for physical, political, and social reasons.

Generec website said:  18-25KW for all those electrical needs.

Up North natural gas still flows even after everything else is knocked out.

100lbs of propane will get you a few days run time if you are that worried, I think its just a simple orifice jet change in the injector/carburetor on most gensets.

[never_retreat]

Natural gas is the way to go as long as you are not in an earthquake prone area.
I run a 5500 watt portable because we don't have NG. I looked into the propane units but they burn way more than gasoline especially in the dollar per hour aspect. I typically burn about 8-10 gallons per 24 hours. Thats when I'm at home because work is closed. A little less once we stop using stuff around the house.
I run 2 fridges, 1 1/2hp sump pump, and blower on the gas hot air furnace.
I installed a interlock device in my main panel, so every circuit has power in the house if I want it. I can walk around use any light and any outlet.
Now granted I know I can't use the electric range or dryer. But I can use the microwave, coffee maker, and stuff like that.
I have carefully run 1 burner on the electric stove and done a load of dishes in the dishwasher. Not at the same time and with almost everything else off.
When we have lost power during the hurricane force rain storms the sump pump is fine, after the rain is passed I unplug the regular sump pump and let the battery unit take care of the water if need be. The battery charger does not use much power and has no start surge like the 1/2hp regular pump.

You have to look more realistically into what you want to power. Big things in the equation are the stove and AC.
Depending on the size of the a/c is going to be the biggest hog.
You don't necessarily need to be able to power both. Say you want to cook, turn of the a/c for a bit.
Or calculate the range on maybe on using the oven or 2 burners max.

The 2 most common brands of bigger generators you will see are Generac and Kohler. Kohler makes a better unit from what I have heard. Most of the bigger ones will use a GMC engine in them. You should look into 20-30 kw range. Expect to spend at least 5-10k on a unit.

20kw
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200448671_200448671
30 kw
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200481398_200481398

If you want to look at other brands, Onan, and Caterpillar are great also. But big bucks

[K Frame]

I think Castle Key could get along very nicely without having to throw the stove into the equation. He's got a couple of BBQ grills, including a Green Egg, so he can cook just fine.

[Hutch]

"Per an earlier question, if there's a no-poop-this-is-the-end sort of grid-down outage lasting more than a day or two, expect the NG to quit flowing as well for physical, political, and social reasons."

As I noted earlier, they've lost power for close to a week a couple of times in the years that they've lived there.

I stand by my statement.  The reason gas kept flowing is because other areas were unaffected, and could supply gas, maintenance crews, etc.  If zombies(*) are walking, ain't nothing gonna flow, for long.

(*) obligatory explanation that "zombies" is an intellectual shorthand for "planetary autoclave in progress, please stand by".

[K Frame]

If zombies are walking  , chances of being able to replace gasoline or diesel is going to be pretty damned slim to nonexistent.

If the situation is that catastrophic, that's when it's time to unass the area.