are bars responsible/liable for overserving?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

how many is too many?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/maryland-case-shows-bars-should-be-liable-for-drunk-patrons/2013/07/31/e5fc6974-fa15-11e2-a369-d1954abcb7e3_story.html?hpid=z2

[AZRedhawk44]

Bull.

You want another one, get another one.

Wear your big boy (or big girl) pants when you go out on the town.



Life has consequences, and the only entity that can balance those is the individual.

[HankB]

Unless the bar serves liquor to a minor, IMHO the drunk himself - and ONLY the drunk himself - is responsible for any harm that comes from his actions while he's drunk.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

its against the law to serve a drunk.  usual defense is claim you didn't know.  hard to do when you serve them 20 drinks

[AZRedhawk44]

its against the law to serve a drunk.  usual defense is claim you didn't know.  hard to do when you serve them 20 drinks

Stoopid law.

"Drunk" will typically mean BAC of .08 or whatever legal limit is.

ONE Kiltlifter pint will do that.



Yet another law with no victims, only empowers the State.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Stoopid law.

"Drunk" will typically mean BAC of .08 or whatever legal limit is.

ONE Kiltlifter pint will do that.



Yet another law with no victims, only empowers the State.

didn't read the article?

[dogmush]

Are you willing to give bar employee's the power to hold someone against their will and/or steal their car?

Then the drunk is the one responsible.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Are you willing to give bar employee's the power to hold someone against their will and/or steal their car?

Then the drunk is the one responsible.

serve someone 20 drinks?
hes in blackout

[AZRedhawk44]

Eaton, a self-described alcoholic, was duly punished. He was sentenced to eight years in prison after pleading guilty to vehicular manslaughter and leaving the scene of an accident.

Problem solved.

The bar isn't at fault.

Guy might live near by.

Guy might be using a cab, bus or light rail.

Guy might be from out of town and staying at a hotel that's close.

Bar has no business impeding someone that wants to leave their establishment.  We have a word for that:  kidnapping.

Eaton’s waitress cut him off about 10 p.m., when he turned argumentative. A manager offered to call him a taxi.

Sadly, Eaton declined the cab. And no one from the alehouse insisted or tried to stop him.

As any decent bar does.

He appeared intoxicated beyond what is allowed in polite social company.  And got cut off.

They offered him a cab, he declined.

Shall the bars produce shotguns from under the counter and hold him at gunpoint?

WTF do you want?

“For me, the bar was liable,” said Angela Warr, Jazimen’s grandmother, who raised the girl from age 2. “They knew how many alcoholic drinks they’d given him. Someone should have said, ‘Give me your keys,’ or ‘Let me call a family member.’ Or they could have called the police.”

So some skag who is easily led by the nose by a lawshark is getting towed around by her emotions.

I guess we should all legislate from our feelings.

[roo_ster]

didn't read the article?

Read the article.  

Saw where customer was cut off, refused good advice, drove, and hurt another AFTER the last transaction with bar employees.  

So, there was no victim from the interactions between bar employees and customer, hence, "victimless crime."

The customer did commit a crime, hurt someone, and is being punished.  As he should be.  The civil suit against the bar is just legal system lottery and we all end up losers if they win.

If the neo-prohibitionists get their way, I wonder (using their logic) if an auto dealer also ought to be held liable for selling an automobile to a drunk?

[MechAg94]

Read the article.  

Saw where customer was cut off, refused good advice, drove, and hurt another AFTER the last transaction with bar employees.  

So, there was no victim from the interactions between bar employees and customer, hence, "victimless crime."

The customer did commit a crime, hurt someone, and is being punished.  As he should be.  The civil suit against the bar is just legal system lottery and we all end up losers if they win.

If the neo-prohibitionists get their way, I wonder (using their logic) if an auto dealer also ought to be held liable for selling an automobile to a drunk?

Or sell a car to someone with a history of DUI problems. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Read the article.  

Saw where customer was cut off, refused good advice, drove, and hurt another AFTER the last transaction with bar employees.  

So, there was no victim from the interactions between bar employees and customer, hence, "victimless crime."

The customer did commit a crime, hurt someone, and is being punished.  As he should be.  The civil suit against the bar is just legal system lottery and we all end up losers if they win.

If the neo-prohibitionists get their way, I wonder (using their logic) if an auto dealer also ought to be held liable for selling an automobile to a drunk?

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/courier/news/woodlands-bartender-first-task-force-arrest-for-overserving/article_c1b10607-707b-5c14-816f-470ccd712bca.html

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/courier/news/woodlands-bartender-first-task-force-arrest-for-overserving/article_c1b10607-707b-5c14-816f-470ccd712bca.html

Texas has been screwed up by some sort of weird baptist fundie tendency towards prohibition.

Not sure if all of TX has this, but the Dallas area has something called a unicard.  You can't buy a drink in a bar without having a unicard.

You must show your unicard and all drinks you buy are logged to your unicard.

I suspect that DPS has real-time access to unicard info.


Every time I went out when I lived there, I got a new unicard for every drink I had.  Unicards are free, and doing that makes it that much harder to aggregate info at the unicard level.  Sometimes I'd use my WA driver's license to get a card, sometimes I'd use my TX license, sometimes I'd use my passport.  Completely breaks a relational database all to hell.

[dogmush]

serve someone 20 drinks?
hes in blackout

Bull. I have had 20 drinks  In 5 hours and not blacked out. Your statement is false.

[AZRedhawk44]

Bull. I have had 20 drinks  In 5 hours and not blacked out. Your statement is false.

Depends on what a "drink" is.

I went to the AZ beer fest last year, and we had a DD take us all in a van.  Had this little 3oz plastic beer stein, and a book full of tickets for beer.  Fill the stein somewhere, give 'em a ticket from the book.  I think I had 36 tickets?  Or 48?  I don't remember.

I had 4 left by the end of the day.

I drank too much that day, but I also didn't drive.  So it doesn't matter other than in the context of whether the bartender should be serving me.

I came to deliberately imbibe as much tasty beer as I could.  Sobriety was not an objective.


Doing the same thing in September down in Tucson, going to beer fest down there.  Staying at a hotel that night, the hotel is providing a shuttle for beer fest patrons.

Whose effing business is it how much I drink?

[charby]

Iowa yes bars are liable for overserving a customer, or serving a drunk customer.

[roo_ster]

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/courier/news/woodlands-bartender-first-task-force-arrest-for-overserving/article_c1b10607-707b-5c14-816f-470ccd712bca.html

Uh, so?  

Just because someone enacted a dumbass law doesn't make it right morally or logically.

Also, TABC is way out of control.  They need to be culled of their more outrageous agents. 

[Fitz]

serve someone 20 drinks?
hes in blackout

Who got him there?

He did.

Im tired of "addicts" and "alcoholics" blaming everyone for their own *expletive deleted*it.

"MAN, AS SOON AS I GET ONE DRINK IN ME, I CAN'T STOP"

Then don't have the first one.


This *expletive deleted*it is the drunk's fault. If he gets to black out, it's still HIS fault for getting there.

[Boomhauer]

Who got him there?

He did.

Im tired of "addicts" and "alcoholics" blaming everyone for their own *expletive deleted*.

"MAN, AS SOON AS I GET ONE DRINK IN ME, I CAN'T STOP"

Then don't have the first one.


This *expletive deleted* is the drunk's fault. If he gets to black out, it's still HIS fault for getting there.

The death of personal responsibility is the cause of almost all of the idiocy in todays world. Nobody is willing to own up to their actions for anything.

[Fly320s]

The death of personal responsibility is the cause of almost all of the idiocy in todays world. Nobody is willing to own up to their actions for anything.

Nailed it.

[Fitz]

Nice touch, though... the posting of a link to an idiotic situation as proof that another idiotic situation is valid.

[Balog]

Costco should be held liable for people who buy their big ole bottles of vodka then drink too much and drive drunk. We really just need the NSA to install real time BAC monitors on everyone and call out the SWAT team when someone gets over 0.04. They're already monitoring everything but what we think anyway.

[Ned Hamford]

I am a big fan of the somewhat new local drunk friendly programs.  The local bars and catering halls have free taxi service and even triple A offers free towing to drunks on the big holidays.  If you are a drunk driver, its all on you.  Endless opportunities to limit your own potential to harm yourself and others. 

I never got the bible thumping prohibitionists given all the drinking friendly bits in the aforementioned bible.  Give strong drunk unto him... 

[Fitz]

Here locally there are all kinds of safe ride programs

[MillCreek]

There have been lots of over-serving civil lawsuits in Washington.  It is a well-established legal theory here.