are bars responsible/liable for overserving?

[Fitz]

not serve him 20 beers
thats gonna be hard to explain away and i know its gonna cost em big

Objection


You're assuming they knew how many he had. I've ordered drinks from a bar, drinks from several waitresses, paid with cash. Busy bar, you think everyone is comparing notes on how many drinks an individual person has had?

I'll give you a tip from someone with experience in the industry ... The answer is no


You're focused on numbers, when numbers don't matter. Some people are slammed after five drinks. Numbers mean nothing. I could probably stretch 29 beers out over an average show night. I'd be drunk, too drunk to drive, but I probably wouldn't trigger any alarms with bar staff

I'd be willing to test this. You are near me. Lets do it

[Fitz]

Answer me this. Once they determine he's drunk, how do they keep him from driving? Say they stopped him at 10

Or is your position that bars shouldnt be allowed to get people drunk anymore?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Objection


You're assuming they knew how many he had. I've ordered drinks from a bar, drinks from several waitresses, paid with cash. Busy bar, you think everyone is comparing notes on how many drinks an individual person has had?

I'll give you a tip from someone with experience in the industry ... The answer is no


You're focused on numbers, when numbers don't matter. Some people are slammed after five drinks. Numbers mean nothing. I could probably stretch 29 beers out over an average show night. I'd be drunk, too drunk to drive, but I probably wouldn't trigger any alarms with bar staff

I'd be willing to test this. You are near me. Lets do it

i got my first liquor license in pg county md on may 25 1978. had three in that county 2 in dc 2 in fairfax and one in montgomery county md over the next 20 years.
its your responsibility as a license holder to be on top of what happens in your place
when you get a name like mike the corona guy you are one of "those" customers.   the kind that get to bend the rules since "hes cool".    or he was   till he killed that kid
heck i did three day blackout where i went to work    i was "that " customer   
lets not try to pretend we don't know what drives it
greed 
i tip well enough that folks break the law and betray the folks they work for
and greed gets folks dead


how do you feel about the pill pushing doctor thats facing 95 charges in our area?  including a manslaughter beef for someone down your way who dies using the pills she served up

[Fitz]

She didn't force anyone to take pills

Crazy thought , but I believe that people are responsible for their own actions

Odd, I know

[Fitz]

They were on top of it. They cut him off. They attempted to get him a ride.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

She didn't force anyone to take pills

Crazy thought , but I believe that people are responsible for their own actions

Odd, I know

inconsistent not odd

did the good doctor not make a commitment to obey the laws under which she was licensed?
what is this method of determining which responsibilities are binding and which are not?  is there a decoder ring?
i mean i have such a hard time reconciling a greedy doctor getting rich exploiting addicts with your ethereal "good"

[Fitz]

Exploiting addicts

Lol

Addicts are weak. It's their fault they're addicts. As such, their exploitation is chiefly their own fault

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Exploiting addicts

Lol

Addicts are weak. It's their fault they're addicts. As such, their exploitation is chiefly their own fault

ahhhh now we are getting some guidelines

so you support the doctor going ala carte on her legal obligations and responsibilities?
what other areas is this good for? in general or in your life in particular.
if she was treating your kid at the hospital and was impaired harmed her you would support the hospital having immunity? 

[Fitz]

And was impaired harmed her?

Are you drinking tonight?

To answer what I think is your question, no. I don't support the doctor. But , as I said, the person chiefly responsible for an addict being an addict is the addict

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

my questions that you didn't like?
did the good doctor not make a commitment to obey the laws under which she was licensed?
what is this method of determining which responsibilities are binding and which are not?  is there a decoder ring?

[Fitz]

my questions that you didn't like?
did the good doctor not make a commitment to obey the laws under which she was licensed?
what is this method of determining which responsibilities are binding and which are not?  is there a decoder ring?

I never countered any of that. Of course she should follow the law.

Doesnt mean she's the origin of the situation.

No one forced the person at the bar to drink

No one forces a junkie to pop pills

[Azrael256]

my questions that you didn't like?
did the good doctor not make a commitment to obey the laws under which she was licensed?
what is this method of determining which responsibilities are binding and which are not?  is there a decoder ring?

Strawman.  Poor one.  A doctor's professional responsibility is so astoundingly different as to make this a case of apples and sea urchins.
Furthermore, the good doctor intentionally participated in a criminal enterprise.  The bartender did not.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I never countered any of that. Of course she should follow the law.

Doesnt mean she's the origin of the situation.

No one forced the person at the bar to drink

No one forces a junkie to pop pills

who forced the doc or the barkeep to break the law?
no ones asking the barkeep to take a manslaughter beef

[Fitz]

You're not making much sense

You're asserting positions that I have never held.

The chiefly responsible person is the addict. If the barkeep hasn't served him , he might have gone elsewhere. If he hasn't drank, he wouldn't have been drunk at all. The person most able to avoid the situation, if he had any self control, is the drunk.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Strawman.  Poor one.  A doctor's professional responsibility is so astoundingly different as to make this a case of apples and sea urchins.
Furthermore, the good doctor intentionally participated in a criminal enterprise.  The bartender did not.

the bartender did in fact break the law
and someone did die

[Azrael256]

the bartender did in fact break the law
and someone did die

So did Lee Harvey Oswald. We'd better charge the bartender with assassinating the president!

Put him in the doctor's lab coat lab coat and he's still a strawman.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

So did Lee Harvey Oswald. We'd better charge the bartender with assassinating the president!

Put him in the doctor's lab coat lab coat and he's still a strawman.

so you acknowledge the bartender committed a crime now? 

[Azrael256]

so you acknowledge the bartender committed a crime now? 

No, I'm mocking your assertion that he committed a crime by suggesting that it has as much merit as charging him for the murder of President Kennedy.

[lupinus]

so you acknowledge the bartender committed a crime now? 

So did you the last time you drove 5 over.

Give the gas station clerk a ticket and fine the gas station for enabling you.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if i kill a 10 year old driving 5 over i get a better charge. md makes it a crime to serve an intoxicated person. the insurance companies have sucessfully kept dram shop laws away from the state.

damn phone

[Jamisjockey]

Just because there is a law against something, doesn't make it wrong (or the law right, I should say).  Overserving laws are just another nail in the coffin for personal responsibility in this country.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

when you make a choice to enter a regulated industry( get licensed snd all) what is the group approved metric for determining when irs ok to declare yourself above the rules you agreed to abide by. when is it "liberty" and when is it fraud abd shirking responsibility.

damn phone

[geronimotwo]

if we are not going to believe that personal accountability has merit, why don't we take it a step further and blame the licensing agency, or the liquor producer?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

the server has no "personal accountability"?  in that county they actually are formally trained on law and what is and isn't kosher

[geronimotwo]

but the state gave the license that allowed that person to serve alcohol.  certainly they should know the failabilities of the human bartender's judgement, and require a patron to pass a breathalyzer test before getting served their next drink?