Author Topic: Another victim of 'officer safety'  (Read 7334 times)

brimic

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Another victim of 'officer safety'
« on: August 09, 2013, 06:10:07 PM »
http://www.rocklandtimes.com/2013/08/08/police-killing-of-95-year-old-war-hero-in-illinois-outrages-nation/

Quote
When John Wrana, a U.S. Air Corps veteran who served in Burma and India during World War II, flew into a fit at his assisted living home in Park Forest, Illinois because he didn’t want to receive surgery at a nearby hospital, one might not think the best course of action to physically subdue the frail old man would be to hit him with a taser and bean bag rounds.

We do not know the exact circumstances after police forced themselves into Wrana’s nursing home room with riot shields, but we do know they ended the situation with precisely those tactics. Wrana was brought to the hospital shortly thereafter, but died from internal bleeding.

Is it just me or is this kind of crap getting both more common and more brazen every day?
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2013, 06:23:38 PM »
Fawking hell!


I used to know an 80 year old man that, after hip replacement, could still throw me across the dojo floor like a rag doll.  Few and far between, but possible I guess.

I guess ossifer safety dictated the hard entry?  So glad the boys in blue made it home safe and sound that night.
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Tallpine

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2013, 06:24:18 PM »
http://www.rocklandtimes.com/2013/08/08/police-killing-of-95-year-old-war-hero-in-illinois-outrages-nation/

Is it just me or is this kind of crap getting both more common and more brazen every day?

Sure seems that way  :mad:
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Fitz

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2013, 06:40:44 PM »
I think it will only get worse

What kind of cowardly *expletive deleted*ing shitheads Are becoming police officers these days ??
Fitz

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roo_ster

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2013, 07:03:23 PM »
I think it will only get worse

What kind of cowardly *expletive deleted* shitheads Are becoming police officers these days ??

The kind that tase and shoot beanbag rounds at 95YO men.

To think that my 5'-nuthin' trauma nurse wife handles gang thugs every day at the hospital with a combination of conversation, pain meds, and the promise/threat of anti-psychotic drugs.


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roo_ster

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tokugawa

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2013, 07:10:57 PM »
I think it will only get worse

What kind of cowardly *expletive deleted* shitheads Are becoming police officers these days ??

 That is a damn good question- whenever these sorts of subjects are brought up, there is always a retired cop somewhere who says he got out because of this crap , or how the new hires are all bullies etc.

 I really don't know if this stuff is more common, or we just see more of it due to the ubiquitous cameras -internet etc.  I know for sure that I got some breaks from the cops growing up 40 years ago ,that a kid would never get today.  And we never heard of swat raids and normally when someone did get killed by the cops they damn well deserved it.

 Seems like "compliance" is the only thing they teach them these days. Be degrading to actually TALK to the subjects, eh?  This sounds like the kind of situation any halfway competent person could calm down.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2013, 07:23:57 PM »
http://www.rocklandtimes.com/2013/08/08/police-killing-of-95-year-old-war-hero-in-illinois-outrages-nation/

Is it just me or is this kind of crap getting both more common and more brazen every day?

couple questions
was there a knife?
why were cops there?  if the staff could handle him fine why did they call cops?


we had a guy in his 80's kill his roomy in a home here    picked him up over his head and body slammed him   some older folks get mean   
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Fitz

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2013, 07:25:54 PM »
Lol
Fitz

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brimic

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2013, 07:28:54 PM »
Quote
couple questions
was there a knife?
why were cops there?  if the staff could handle him fine why did they call cops?


we had a guy in his 80's kill his roomy in a home here    picked him up over his head and body slammed him   some older folks get mean  



Would it have really mattered if he had a knife?
He was in his room, all they would have had to do is post a guard outside the door to contain him for about 20 minutes until he had to piss or take a nap.
Just because cops now need to put on swat gear and shoot someone to obtain an erection doesn't mean it should be the SOP for every situation.

"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
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T.O.M.

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2013, 07:55:15 PM »
We get agitated/angry people in court every day.  In the 7 years I've been working there, I've never seen a court officer draw a weapon, much lessnuse one.  I can estimate maybe once per month when some person gets handled hy staff.  Why?  You talk to people.  Show some respect. Don't raise your voice. Don't threaten.  Just talk to them, and let them talk as well.  Listen, even if you don't care, pretend you do.  Learned this real early from some good cops.  Too many of these cops are trained to see everything as a threat and to act accordingly.  Someone inside the magical 21 feet needs to get responded to in a tactical manner.  Someone who doesn't comply needs to be forced into compliance.

It's not just a cop thing.  A lot of soldiers I know complain they are taught and commandednthe same way.  Some trainersnteach their atudents in tactics classes to do the same.  It's too bad.

A quick story.  When I was a young prosecutor, a woman with psych issues came to court with a big knife in her belt.  Bailiff was a retired state trooper, saw it.  Struck up a coversation with her, shared a couple of jokes, and then asked her if she would lay the knife on his desk on the other side of the room.  She did, and he never touched the revolver on his hip.

I hope all the good ones aren't retired or gone.
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Balog

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2013, 08:26:01 PM »
Even though I generally couldn't talk to them, I showed the Iraqis I encountered far more courtesy and respect than the average cop shows the folks he's supposedly serving and protecting these days. And if i had to beat down some senior citizen (assuming he didn't have a gun or explosives) my command would've been so far up my ass it wouldn't have been funny.
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SADShooter

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2013, 08:39:32 PM »
Even though I generally couldn't talk to them, I showed the Iraqis I encountered far more courtesy and respect than the average cop shows the folks he's supposedly serving and protecting these days. And if i had to beat down some senior citizen (assuming he didn't have a gun or explosives) my command would've been so far up my ass it wouldn't have been funny.

You didn't assume blind deference/obedience on the part of the populace, or knee-jerk loyalty from your chain of command. Interesting, if unfortunate, distinction...
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2013, 08:49:09 PM »


Would it have really mattered if he had a knife?
He was in his room, all they would have had to do is post a guard outside the door to contain him for about 20 minutes until he had to piss or take a nap.
Just because cops now need to put on swat gear and shoot someone to obtain an erection doesn't mean it should be the SOP for every situation.


so why did staff feel need to call cops again?  all they had to do was wait 20 mins
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Balog

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2013, 09:36:33 PM »
so why did staff feel need to call cops again?  all they had to do was wait 20 mins

Some people are still so naive they think cops are the good guys, and expect them not to beat/taze/shoot someone who isn't a threat.
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I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2013, 09:54:42 PM »
Some people are still so naive they think cops are the good guys, and expect them not to beat/taze/shoot someone who isn't a threat.

the staff "coulda handled him"
  yet they called the cops   
typical buyers remorse   ask someone else to do your dirty work then bitch
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

brimic

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2013, 09:59:57 PM »
Quote
the staff "coulda handled him"
  yet they called the cops   
typical buyers remorse   ask someone else to do your dirty work then bitch

Swat gear?
Shoot a 95 year old with a beanbag gun?
Yeah, ok then.  ;/
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
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Balog

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2013, 10:02:30 PM »
It's an ironclad law of reality in his world. Cops hurt you? You musta had it coming.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2013, 10:03:16 PM »
What kind of cowardly *expletive deleted* shitheads Are becoming police officers these days ??

Cowardly *expletive deleted* shitheads, of course.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2013, 11:50:02 PM »
It's an ironclad law of reality in his world. Cops hurt you? You musta had it coming.

I think it's called projection.
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lupinus

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2013, 08:30:32 AM »
If you feel the need to taze and shoot bean bags at an old man doing anything short shuffling his way at you with a knife or pointing a gun in your direction, you don't just need to loose a badge, you need to go to jail. But they wont, they probably wont even get a reprimand for being that damned stupid that they feel the need to rush a room with riot shields tasers and shotguns loaded with bean bags to subdue a grouchy old fart.

And it's a byproduct of the "respect my authorita or I'll damn well throw you on the ground and make you!" mindset that they have been taught, trained, and that the courts and the general public have come to accept. All in the name of "officer safety" in a job that doesn't even break the top ten in terms of how likely you are to be hurt or killed on the job. And it's never questioned beyond that.

Talk to the guy, don't be a dick, shove your force compliance crap up your ass unless it's truly needed, and maybe use a little brain power instead of brute force for a change.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2013, 09:29:08 AM »
If you feel the need to taze and shoot bean bags at an old man doing anything short shuffling his way at you with a knife or pointing a gun in your direction, you don't just need to loose a badge, you need to go to jail. But they wont, they probably wont even get a reprimand for being that damned stupid that they feel the need to rush a room with riot shields tasers and shotguns loaded with bean bags to subdue a grouchy old fart.

And it's a byproduct of the "respect my authorita or I'll damn well throw you on the ground and make you!" mindset that they have been taught, trained, and that the courts and the general public have come to accept. All in the name of "officer safety" in a job that doesn't even break the top ten in terms of how likely you are to be hurt or killed on the job. And it's never questioned beyond that.

Talk to the guy, don't be a dick, shove your force compliance crap up your ass unless it's truly needed, and maybe use a little brain power instead of brute force for a change.

so a knife would be a game changer?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

lupinus

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2013, 10:04:16 AM »
so a knife would be a game changer?

Yes.

It gives them carte blanche tase and bludgeon him to death. Crotchety old geezer had it coming the second he threw his bed pan at the nurse.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Tallpine

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2013, 12:10:59 PM »
so why did staff feel need to call cops again?  all they had to do was wait 20 mins

I guess because they felt that they had to exercise their "authority" to force him to endure an unwanted medical procedure  :mad:
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MillCreek

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2013, 12:47:39 PM »
I was not there on the scene and am unfamiliar with the patient, so I am hesitant to comment on what went down, but in my healthcare facilities, we would rarely call the police in these sort of situations since if there are no weapons involved, the facility staff is better able to manage the problem.  Then again, we had a case in February this year of an 85 year old resident in a local nursing home who shot the nursing home administrator due to a perceived grudge.  One .38 round to the abdomen causing liver and vascular damage but the administrator survived and returned to work.  I can't recall if the resident has been tried yet or what his sentence is.  He will probably be going directly to the infirmary wing of our local prison, since I cannot imagine he can care for himself in general population.
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æg151337

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Re: Another victim of 'officer safety'
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2013, 01:09:59 PM »
I recently bought a taser from a gun show which got me googling the subject. I was surprised to find that whenever i searched anything taser related i got quite a few articles popping up about police, not just in the U.S., stunning small children and old people. There was a pretty interesting topic on the TED talks on the excessive use of non-lethal force in law enforcement. I don't remember the statistics of the top of my head. Here's a link

http://www.ted.com/talks/stephen_coleman_the_moral_dangers_of_non_lethal_weapons.html

Anywho, wtf.
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