2 CCW's holders shoot each other

[brimic]

Reminds me, I saw a Plymouth prowler a few weeks back, the other 'concept car' that came out the same time that the PT did.
My son asked me how come there aren't more of them, I answered, because they only sold about 5 of them.

[Ben]

This here is a PT Cruiser:

[Jamisjockey]

This here is a PT Cruiser:

I've got the weirdest boner right now.

[TechMan]

What thread veer...from 2 CCW holders shooting each other to PT Cruisers to JJ's "weird boner".

[Ben]

I've got the weirdest boner right now.

If you wanna keep it going:

http://www.legacypowerwagon.com/Legacy-Dodge-Carryall_p_14.html

I really dig all these awesome retro remakes of older vehicles, especially pickups and utility vehicles. The prices though, will make you go from erection to scared turtle.

[brimic]

I really dig all these awesome retro remakes of older vehicles, especially pickups and utility vehicles. The prices though, will make you go from erection to scared turtle.

I was going to suggest a Chevy Nomad.. scared turtle indeed.

[RocketMan]

Rented a PT Cruiser on a business trip to Cedar Falls, IA, years ago. I had never driven one before, but thought they looked interesting in a semi-cool way.
I felt...uncomfortable...driving it.  Maybe I wasn't gay enough or something.  I won't be renting any more of them.

[Balog]

http://youtu.be/cv7NqLxnYB0

I've seen that in a lot of "would you be justified in using lethal force in this situation" discussions.

[Balog]

That video oled me to this one. Dude should be a cop, he's got the right attitude... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx0-dN3giY0

[AZRedhawk44]

That video oled me to this one. Dude should be a cop, he's got the right attitude... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx0-dN3giY0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IdM84YVmV0

[Perd Hapley]

That video oled me to this one. Dude should be a cop, he's got the right attitude... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx0-dN3giY0

And the dude in the white shirt should be deported for being a useless lump.

[erictank]

The PT Cruiser started off as a joke. (One might say it continued as a joke ... on the buying public.)

I remember reading an article about "how it all began" back when the Cruiser was new. Apparently a couple of younger stylists at Mopar HQ had too much time on their hands so they decided to see what they could create using as many parts of existing Mopar vehicles as possible. Most PT Cruiser owners don't know (and most of those who know don't like to admit) that it's a Neon. It uses the Neon platform and the Neon drive train, and just packages it in a cutesy "retro" box.

Their supervisor saw what they were working on, and (kudos to him, if not to them) told them to keep going with it.

The engine was better than the stock Neon - I don't think they offered the 3.5L V6 in a Neon. I remember a concept car they worked on in the early to mid 90s, IIRC called the Venom. Viper's little brother, aimed at the ponycar market (which Dodge had nothing for at that time) and powered by a 240hp version of that V6. For $17K.

Here we go: http://www.carstyling.ru/en/cars.1994_Dodge_Venom.html - 260hp, not 240.

I was on the TR at the time, and just getting into cars. Back then, if they'd gone to market with these, I'd have bought one. Heck, I still would, if it was any good - especially for $17K.

[GigaBuist]

Statistically, it HAD to happen at some point.

On a macabre note, at least it was better marksmanship than NYPD:

Dead targets, live bystanders.

Not to thread jack *cough* but according to my wife (this is a local story for us) the two shooters both landed 5 of 5 shots on each other.  So, uh, "yay!" for accuracy.

Also, one of the CCW holders lost his permit in 2006 due to a DUI.  He also had a loaded handgun in the car when pulled over for DUI.  With a BAC of .18 he should have lost his permit for life by Michigan law but the police didn't charge him for that because the gun had nothing to do with him being pulled over so they let it slide.

In hindsight maybe they should have pulled that guy's permit.  When you pay upwards of $125 bucks to get a legal education on carrying a gun in our state and then violate the piss out of the law you're showing some pretty poor judgement.  It's illegal to carry a gun in Michigan with a BAC of 0.20 -- that's one beer.  His BAC was .18 which isn't just legally too much to drive a car... that's drunk.  Very drunk.

[freakazoid]

Reminds me, I saw a Plymouth prowler a few weeks back, the other 'concept car' that came out the same time that the PT did.
My son asked me how come there aren't more of them, I answered, because they only sold about 5 of them.

Plymouth Prowlers are sweet.

[gunsmith]

Not to thread jack *cough* but according to my wife (this is a local story for us) the two shooters both landed 5 of 5 shots on each other.  So, uh, "yay!" for accuracy.

Also, one of the CCW holders lost his permit in 2006 due to a DUI.  He also had a loaded handgun in the car when pulled over for DUI.  With a BAC of .18 he should have lost his permit for life by Michigan law but the police didn't charge him for that because the gun had nothing to do with him being pulled over so they let it slide.

In hindsight maybe they should have pulled that guy's permit.  When you pay upwards of $125 bucks to get a legal education on carrying a gun in our state and then violate the piss out of the law you're showing some pretty poor judgement.  It's illegal to carry a gun in Michigan with a BAC of 0.20 -- that's one beer.  His BAC was .18 which isn't just legally too much to drive a car... that's drunk.  Very drunk.

  was the dui guy the aggressor in this case?
I'm thinking most likely, as it is an unfortunate trait of us alkies, irritability.
Here in NV the drinking/carrying limit is the old dui limit .10...so you could be to drunk to drive and still defend yourself walking home I guess

[Levant]

Did they ever identify who was the bad guy and who was shooting in self-defense?  One car had two passengers.  Was that the victim's car or the road raged driver's car.

[AZRedhawk44]

I disagree with the concept that inebriation is just cause to waive right to self defense.

The forensic facts better dang well back up your claim of self defense if you are drunk and end up shooting in self defense... but the notion that you aren't allowed to have a gun while drinking is just ridiculous to me.

I don't go out and get hammered anyways, mind you. 

It's just more pre-crime, to me.

[Levant]

I agree.  The idea that guns and alcohol don't mix is wrong.  It is only in my lifetime that it has become illegal to be in possession of a gun while drinking.  For most of the history of guns, beer or ale was what people drank because it was not safe to drink water.  Much of the discussions leading to the formation of this country was held in pubs with guns at their sides. Guns and alcohol have always been a great pair.  Guns and stupidity don't mix.  If you're going to get stupid drunk, leave your guns home.  If you're just stupid anyway, leave your guns home.  Having a beer while carrying a gun does not in any way mean you're going to shoot someone any more than driving in heavy traffic does.

[gunsmith]

yup, a friend of mine out here is pretty much a practicing alcoholic-he and his friends get hammered - really plastered and still maintain strict anal safety protocols - which is a good thing because his friends have too much money and are class three collectors.

The real crime is that they're like all friendly and stuff and invite you to try all kinds of neat things, like an original mp5 in .9mm - then the next day they wake up all hungover and cranky and tell you that you owe them for all the ammo you wasted

[GigaBuist]

  was the dui guy the aggressor in this case?

Seems like it.  The older guy was tailgating the younger guy (43 vs. 56) and they eventually got out of their cars.  The younger guy stopped to get a car wash, his wife was out of the car getting ready to wash it.  So, it appears he didn't stop to confront the tailgater, just stopped there because that's where he was headed.   Older guy was the one with a DUI and should have lost his permit for life years ago.  Witnesses (the younger guy's mother) say the older guy shot first, made hits, younger guy reached back into his car to get his own gun, and shot back.

[gunsmith]

hmm, one would think an aggressive driver following you in a road rage incident would be noticed -

I've been wrong before as you guys well know.

[freakazoid]

So after the younger was shot he manages to get his gun out, take aimed shots and put the other guy down before going down himself. Better than we often hear about police shootings. Any word on what they were using?

[Pharmacology]

I disagree with the concept that inebriation is just cause to waive right to self defense.
The forensic facts better dang well back up your claim of self defense if you are drunk and end up shooting in self defense... but the notion that you aren't allowed to have a gun while drinking is just ridiculous to me.
I don't go out and get hammered anyways, mind you. 
It's just more pre-crime, to me.

For me, it's a gray area.  If you're at home, then of course you should be able to defend yourself, no matter what BAC.


Personally, I won't carry a gun if I have a severe cold that makes me feel out of it.

[Tallpine]

I agree.  The idea that guns and alcohol don't mix is wrong.  It is only in my lifetime that it has become illegal to be in possession of a gun while drinking.  For most of the history of guns, beer or ale was what people drank because it was not safe to drink water.  Much of the discussions leading to the formation of this country was held in pubs with guns at their sides. Guns and alcohol have always been a great pair.  Guns and stupidity don't mix.  If you're going to get stupid drunk, leave your guns home.  If you're just stupid anyway, leave your guns home.  Having a beer while carrying a gun does not in any way mean you're going to shoot someone any more than driving in heavy traffic does.

Actually, I'm almost a nice person when I've had a drink or two - probably less likely to shoot 

[GigaBuist]

Any word on what they were using?

Just ran across that.  No makes or models but the older guy that was tailgating who likely started shooting first had a .22 Magnum.  The younger guy retrieved a 9mm from his car after being hit.