Self Defense via SUV

[41magsnub]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ukdkgLYYbw

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pack-motorcyclists-chase-man-suv-attack-upper-manhattan-street-fender-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585

Check this video out.  A family in a Range rover is harassed by a gang of wannabe bikers in Manhattan (read:  no CCW).  The bikers cut the SUV off and force it to stop.  Once they start harassing him after stopping, the driver floors it, running over a few bikes and makes a run for it.  They follow him and eventually he gets stopped in traffic.  The bikers smash the windows and beat the guy up.

The video is a helmet cam on one of the bikers.  

What would you do in this situation given the constraints of being in Manhattan.  You don't get to shoot the bikers.

[MechAg94]

Find a better route through traffic?  Drive to a police station or find a cop?

Did he call the cops before he ran over some bikes?

I don't suppose he could have seen the bikers and kept his distance better?  Not sure why they started harrassing him in the first place. 

[Boomhauer]

Running them over was a good start but he should have started playing pinball with the group when they got back up to a higher speed by slamming into them with quick lane changes.

I give him an A+ on good instinct (get the hell out of there and run over some of them initially) but a B on aggressiveness.

[MechAg94]

Okay, can't watch the video now.  If he had that opportunity, he should have used it. 

[Fitz]

This video is under discussion on my sportbike board.

Here are my thoughts.

A.) Bikers have this idiotic habit of trying to "force" people out of "their group" when cars are forced to merge on onramps, etc. I hate this practice. From comments throughout the web, this appears to have been the SUV's first offense against the snowflakes' delicate sensibilities, where "share the road" means "GIMME"

B.) the guy in jeans/vest got in front of the SUV and slowed WAY down. He was so close, a tap was inevitable.

C.) When the tap happened, they forced his SUV to a stop and surrounded him, attempting to get him out of the vehicle. I don't doubt for a second that he'd have gotten a beatdown had he tried to have a conversation with them.

D.) Wife and kid in the car. Yeah. *expletive deleted*ck you guys. Get out of my way or get run down.

As for the subsequent chase, I think he should have stayed on the freeway and kept moving while waiting for cops. But that's just me.

Bottom line: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Screw those aholes. I'm tired of sportbikers doing silly *expletive deleted*it like this to clog up roads intentionally, then getting all butthurt when bad things happen.

[HankB]

Running them over was a good start but he should have started playing pinball with the group when they got back up to a higher speed by slamming into them with quick lane changes.

I give him an A+ on good instinct (get the hell out of there and run over some of them initially) but a B on aggressiveness.

Agree - when they stopped him and assault the vehicle, they upgraded their status from "annoyance" to "menace." They remained a clear and present danger when they pursued.

By the end, very few traffic jams are so densely packed that an SUV driver can't move his vehicle enough to make things difficult for assaulting pedestrians, even if his bumpers hit those of the vehicles ahead and behind.

If this becomes more common, I suggest this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQbHnLSasfQ

[Kingcreek]

Once a certain line was crossed, I would have been more aggressive with my >3000# weapon. More sudden braking, more maneuvering, more impacts. And I would have stayed on multilane roadway without stop lights or choke points if possible and I would have used reverse gear if I found myself blocked.
The SUV driver was probably scared, but he wasn't committed.

[brimic]

I didn't get to see the viseo, maybe later...

I bunch of bikers try to box me in and bring me to a halt?
Homey don't play dat- unless the bikes have flashing blue and red lights.
Switch transfer case into 4high and and start running the sumb1543s over- forward, reverse, in circles, whatever it takes.

[RevDisk]

Running them over was a good start but he should have started playing pinball with the group when they got back up to a higher speed by slamming into them with quick lane changes.

I give him an A+ on good instinct (get the hell out of there and run over some of them initially) but a B on aggressiveness.

I concur. Should have stayed on the highway, called the cops, and play the good guy (only respond aggressively if they try anything) until the cops show up.


Btw:  FRONT LINE SOLDIERS MC
http://www.frontlinesoldiersmc.com/#!about

This is why wearing colors, or any distinctive markings, always struck me as odd. Also, if you commit a crime, it's not wise to video tape it and post it online. Unless the guy was ensuring that the folks that committed violence paid for it.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Target the protoplasm not the metal hit em but aim to get body parts not wheels or handle bars. Get one good? Finish em. To encourage the others. And always keep mr tireiron under seat next to mr fire extinguisher.

damn phone

[Fitz]

Target the protoplasm not the metal hit em but aim to get body parts not wheels or handle bars. Get one good? Finish em. To encourage the others. And always keep mr tireiron under seat next to mr fire extinguisher.

damn phone

This is also why i avoid areas where I cannot carry.

Someone bashes in my window attempting to pull me out? That's an attempt on my life.

[Phyphor]

Yeah, that would have gone massively different had the SUV driver been armed with a firearm, I think.

As for me, I concur on the 3000 pound weapon idea.  You attempt to pursue and box me in, I'M RUNNING YOU OVER.
You will be greasing my fricking axles.

I hope these punks go to jail for this bullshit.

[tokugawa]

The guy did exactly what he should have- He stopped when the idiot on the bike forced him to hit said idiot- The biker pulled in three feet in front of him and hit the brakes!  Then, when the the rest  were aggressive, he got out of there ASAP. Suggestions that he should have played ping pong with the rest is not legitimate self defense- that is offensive in nature.

 From the video, it looks like the squids were pissed he was driving too slow, even though they had enough room to get around in the other two open lanes. So some jacked up guy decides to "prove something".  He is very lucky he was not killed instantly by being dragged under the car.

 Makes me a tiny bit ashamed to be even remotely associated by way of my hobby. Now everyone who is not a biker is going to see this and get a bad impression.

 

[HankB]

. . . Suggestions that he should have played ping pong with the rest is not legitimate self defense- that is offensive in nature . . .

Not if the group that assaulted the vehicle pursued when their intended victim - the guy in the SUV with his family - tried to break contact.

[Kingcreek]

Not if the group that assaulted the vehicle pursued when their intended victim - the guy in the SUV with his family - tried to break contact.

Agree. There is a lot we don't know and can't get from the video but there was a point when they became aggressors and clearly threatened the driver and his family. the driver would have been justified (IMO) in using whatever means he had available ie 3000 pound rolling weapon to stop the threat.
I don't see this as a negative for all bikers or MCs, just for this particular group of punks.

[Tallpine]

I am liking little cars less and less all the time.

All that gas you save ain't worth a darn if you are dead.

[brimic]

To paraphrase or blatently steal from Jeff Copper- "Do not attend a vehicular fight with a vehicle whose number of wheels does not begin with a 4."

[AmbulanceDriver]

If SWMBO is in the rig w/ me, she's on the phone w/ 911 giving them our location, direction of travel, and running narrative of what's happening.  I'm focusing entirely on driving.   If it's just me, speakerphone and I'm trying to do the same.  If I feel my life is at risk, I'm with most of you - stay on freeway where you don't have traffic lights, etc.   If I hit a traffic jam, I'm in the shoulder, median, whatever the hell I have to drive on to NOT STOP.  My truck weighs 7300 lbs empty.  If they try to box me in and stop me, well, let's just hope I don't rip something important off the bottom of my truck....   'cause if I feel I'm in danger, there's no way in hell I'm gonna let them stop me.

If by some chance I find myself stuck in traffic?  Reference truck weight above - if I have to push other cars out of my way, well then so be it.  As long as I can safely do it, I will ignore traffic lights, wrong way signs, etc.  

[RevDisk]

Now, in an ounce of fairness. From the video, how many bikers do you think clearly saw the white bike essentially try to commit suicide by ramming the front of the SUV? Half a dozen? The entire process was over in 3 seconds. With limited angles of viewing.

My guess is one stupid person did something stupid. Others responded without the necessary information. SUV owner spooked, ran. All of the pack saw the SUV crunch some bikes. Probably without seeing white bike playing stupid games in order to win the stupid prize. So, they pursued as a pack.

Failure of leadership. Hell, no one seemed to be thinking. Doesn't let the bikers off the hook for their crimes. Just saying, it's easy for things to get stupid when there's a LARGE chunk of information missing. If you started the video at the bike crunching, you'd think of things quite differently.

[bedlamite]

This is under discussion on every motorcycle board. Brake checking anything is stupid on a bike, apparently the bikers instigated it and he took off when one of them tried to open his door. Can't fault him for that.

[makattak]

Now, in an ounce of fairness. From the video, how many bikers do you think clearly saw the white bike essentially try to commit suicide by ramming the front of the SUV? Half a dozen? The entire process was over in 3 seconds. With limited angles of viewing.

My guess is one stupid person did something stupid. Others responded without the necessary information. SUV owner spooked, ran. All of the pack saw the SUV crunch some bikes. Probably without seeing white bike playing stupid games in order to win the stupid prize. So, they pursued as a pack.

Failure of leadership. Hell, no one seemed to be thinking. Doesn't let the bikers off the hook for their crimes. Just saying, it's easy for things to get stupid when there's a LARGE chunk of information missing. If you started the video at the bike crunching, you'd think of things quite differently.

Rev has a good point here: in a pack situation like this, the bikers may believe their cause is righteous.

You're just as dead from people who are mistaken as you are from evil people. Sometimes you might have to hurt people who think they are "doing the right thing". (I'm betting most of the bikers didn't think the plan was to run this family down and attack him. In fact, I'm betting most of the bikers didn't think.)

[Balog]

Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said cops were trying to identify some of the bikers, but most of the motorcycles captured in the footage didn’t have license plates on the vehicles.

Damn squids.

[Jamisjockey]

Running them over was a good start but he should have started playing pinball with the group when they got back up to a higher speed by slamming into them with quick lane changes.

I give him an A+ on good instinct (get the hell out of there and run over some of them initially) but a B on aggressiveness.

An F for Followthrough.  They pulled him out of the car and beat him later.
Stick to more open roads. Refuse to stop for anyone except a marked cruiser.

Now, in an ounce of fairness. From the video, how many bikers do you think clearly saw the white bike essentially try to commit suicide by ramming the front of the SUV? Half a dozen? The entire process was over in 3 seconds. With limited angles of viewing.

My guess is one stupid person did something stupid. Others responded without the necessary information. SUV owner spooked, ran. All of the pack saw the SUV crunch some bikes. Probably without seeing white bike playing stupid games in order to win the stupid prize. So, they pursued as a pack.

Failure of leadership. Hell, no one seemed to be thinking. Doesn't let the bikers off the hook for their crimes. Just saying, it's easy for things to get stupid when there's a LARGE chunk of information missing. If you started the video at the bike crunching, you'd think of things quite differently.

No.  Nope. No fairness.  They immediately went into mob mentality.  Follow and call the popo.  Not their place to commence with street justice.  Missing information or not.

[Balog]

It should be noted that these folks were criminals before the attack, riding sans plates (which I don't really care about as it's administrative not mala in se) and stunting on public roads (which I do care about as it risks the lives of other drivers).

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

one thing a former squid notices?
a change in the group dynamics.
there are girls riding now and guys really get stupid fronting and strutting in front of women.


squish a couple fools who break bad like that makes em easy to identify. had a fool do the brake check thing on me with a mixed group of 6 or 7 similar fools.  its a good way to die