Author Topic: guns, liberals and relationships  (Read 3806 times)

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« on: August 28, 2006, 08:09:20 PM »
I just found this forum through the synchronistic wiles of Google. And so I'm probably out of line intruding upon your coffeklatcsh, but heck I'll give it a go.

I'm a youngish Californian woman, always lived in urban areas, grew up in San Francisco in the 70's. Socially somewhat liberal, but with "strong family values" and a strong sense of irony.
My live-in boyfriend is from Ohio, a Republican, and not afraid to let everyone know it here in hippyville.

Question:
We are moving to the "country" (Sierra Foothills) this weekend, and my daddy wants to give me a gun. (Snub-nosed .357 Smith and Wesson). I do archery, and recently purchased a .177 pellet gun for general protection.
We are going to be living in mountain lion and black bear country- my family owns 300 wild acres up there.
I also am the mommy to 2 childen, 8 year old boy and very small adorable deer-like 4-year old girl.

Now, I want to own a gun and to learn from an expert the proper way for a lady to shoot it if need be, to protect my children or myself. My boyfriend simply says " I don't like guns. " There is a very heavily laden period at the end of this statement.

Any advice for you all?
Thanks for letting me interrupt!
-Marie

lupinus

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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2006, 08:19:22 PM »
A .357 will do the trick but I would suggest going with a heavier frame with a longer barrel for controlability and accuracy reasons.

With a .357 revolver you can step down to .38 specials for practice (and really even protection since .38 special does a good job at that) and then when you are comfortable step up to full power .357's.  

.357 is plenty for both two and four legged critters.  Also .357 has the advantage in not just power but bullet selection, they sell hunting bullets for the .357 mag so that ups the defense agianst wild animals aspect of it as for optimum usage bullets that work best agianst two legged varmints don't work as well on the tougher four legged kind.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Silver Bullet

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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2006, 08:20:03 PM »
Hi, Marie.  There will be lotsa folks here willing to help you, but let me also recommend two other sites:

http://www.thehighroad.org/index.php

and

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/index.php

Great firearms sites: thousands of extremely knowledgeable people, and both sites are well-modulated to keep things civil and on topic.

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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2006, 08:27:03 PM »
lupinus-
That is info- actually almost identical to what my dad told me- and he also has a longer barrelled .44 special double action Redhawk that he could give me (his thinking was that the S&W would be a quicker draw in a truly emergency situation).

The issue here really is convincing my boyfriend that having a gun outweighs NOT having one. He was highly disturbed when I brought home my little .177 pellet handgun. Looks scary enough to a 2-legged intruder, but an animal predator would probably just get PO'ed if i shot them with it.

And so, my real question is: how does a woman convince her man that having a gun for self-protection is a Good Thing? Or, alternately, how can I understand where he's coming from and find alternate means of protection. (We do plan on getting a dog- some say "predator snacks.")
As a disclaimer, I am not crazy or have any issues with violence, etc. He is simply against having a gun around. But I would like the peace of mind, especially with the kids around. Fending off a cougar with a walking stick doesn't sound like good odd to me.

-marie

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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2006, 08:29:28 PM »
sliver bullet-
thank you most kindly! I will check out those sites, in hopes of researching thoroughly my best options and education.
Now to convince the boyfriend that having a gun is a good idea, not a bad choice.

-marie

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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2006, 08:34:03 PM »
Welcome, Marie.

This site is actually a spin-off of a larger gun forum, www.thehighroad.org.  We use this mainly for non-gun topics, but it's also a good way to avoid the useless commentary from the larger population on THR.  Of course, you will find a greater number of good responses on The High Road, just be prepared to weed through some dreck.  

You might try posting a thread in the Strategy and Tactics part of that forum, asking about instructors in your area.  You should also be prepared to teach your children firearm safety, with the Eddie Eagle program or something similar.

Have you asked your boyfriend if he has a better alternative for self-defense than a gun?  If not, then he shouldn't stand in your way.

Hope this helps.
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lupinus

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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2006, 08:36:22 PM »
to the pellet gun, I wouldn't bother unless you can hit him in the eye or something anyone you hit with that thing if they want to hurt you is just likly to be pissed off by it, maybe do a little dance first but all in all be pissed off.

The special will most certianly do the trick but the magnum has better ammo choices in my opinion and .38 specials are pretty cheap and not to much recoil for just learning to shoot it.

IMO a snub nose doesn't offer much to anything other then concealment, and that includes draw time.  The increased accurasy and milder recoil of larger framed revolvers with longer barrels outweighs the snub nose for protection and carry unless it is a back up gun or something you need for serious concealability.

And he is a guy, threatin him with the couch and no dinner for a week and he will come around lol
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2006, 09:23:41 PM »
I'll second the worthlessness of the pellet gun as a defensive tool.  You might shoot an attackers eye out, but short of a "golden BB" kind of hit the attacker will just get pissed off.  And then take that anger out on you even more than he otherwise might.

For your situation the Redhawk may well be a good choice.  FWIW I don't know that Ruger ever made one that was only good for .44 special.  I'd bet that it's chambered for .44 magnum, though you certainly can still shoot specials in that gun (good for practice as they're much lower in recoil).  I have one that the previous owner had cut down to a 4.5" barrel.  Makes for a nicer carrying gun when out in the woods than the original 7.5" tube and still has plenty of punch.

As far as your BF is concerned, tell him that it's your kids and your decision to arm yourself for their protection.  If he really cares about you and your kids he should man up and learn to shoot too.  If there's a cougar or bear after your kids, what else is he going to do to save them?  Sticks and stones won't break a bear's bones, and words most certainly will never hurt them.  

Guns are just a tool.  Granted they are dangerous when misused, but so is any tool that is worthwhile (chainsaws, table saws, cars, cleaning solvents, etc).  Learning how to properly and safely use any such tool can save you from a lot of pain and possibly death while giving you all the advantages those tools have to offer.  He doesn't have to like guns, just learn how to safely and effectively use them.  Plenty of people don't like to use a chainsaw, but learned how because it is far too useful to not know how to use (gathering firewood, clearing a road after a storm, clearing forest-fire fuel from around the house, etc).  Same goes for guns when living amongst predators (2 and 4 legged).
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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2006, 09:32:15 PM »
Marie, welcome aboard!

An excellent web site dealing with women and guns is www.corneredcat.com - it's hosted by Kathy Jackson, who posts as "Pax" on The High Road, linked above.  I highly recommend it for answering many of your questions.  Kathy is a GREAT lady, lives up in WA, and she can probably help you find local training (which I strongly recommend).  She will also respond to your questions.

Other than that, the main thing is to START shooting, and keep up practice.  Too many folks buy a gun, shoot a box or two of ammo, then put it away and think that they're set.  Uh-uh.  It needs fairly regular, consistent practice, and some training.

As to convincing your boyfriend, I always found that getting folks to visit a prison and take a tour (and hear the language and watch the bearing of the inmates) did more to convince them that they needed a gun than anything else.

Good luck!  And stick around and post some more.  We're friendly.
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Sindawe

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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2006, 10:46:07 PM »
Quote
I just found this forum through the synchronistic wiles of Google. And so I'm probably out of line intruding upon your coffeklatcsh, but heck I'll give it a go.
Oh how I love the way you turn a phrase marie. WELCOME!
Quote
...my daddy wants to give me a gun. (Snub-nosed .357 Smith and Wesson)...We are going to be living in mountain lion and black bear country- my family owns 300 wild acres up there. I also am the mommy to 2 childen, 8 year old boy and very small adorable deer-like 4-year old girl.
Sneaky-devious hat on here, perhaps you could appeal to his "Manly/Protective/Republican-In-Your-Face" nature and suggest something like this http://www.gunblast.com/Winchester-Ranger357.htm as an accompanyment to the .357 Snub-nosed.  Pistol for close quarters/side arm on hikes, carbine for critters who want to make lunch of the adorable deer-like 4-y/o and the 8-y/o young man.  Stroke the boyfriends ego about how virile he'd look with the carbine across the back while cutting brush to clear space for a grill or nature trail.  Add in that shooting is something you can do together, days at the range away from the kids now and then.  Adult time. Wink

Quote
As far as your BF is concerned, tell him that it's your kids and your decision to arm yourself for their protection.  If he really cares about you and your kids he should man up and learn to shoot too.  If there's a cougar or bear after your kids, what else is he going to do to save them?  Sticks and stones won't break a bear's bones, and words most certainly will never hurt them.
+1  The children are your primary responsibility at this point in your life, their protection on that 300 acres is paramount to his sensibilities.  He does not have to like it (another item on the "Honey-Do" list), but it should be part of the deal.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2006, 01:38:26 AM »
Interesting, usually we have men complaining that their women "don't like guns" and won't let them have one. The usual recommendation is for them to find another woman that DOES like guns.

Do you plan to carry or is this for home defense. Some people prefer shotguns for home defense.

I DEFINITELY would NOT be relying on a pellet gun for personal defense.
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280plus

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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2006, 01:40:57 AM »
Be prepared for marraige proposals over at THR. There's nothing them guys like better than a girl that shoots. Wink
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« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2006, 01:50:22 AM »
Ha! No one has ever proposed to me! Tongue

Smiley

Welcome aboard, Marie.

1.) Not your job to teach him about guns or self-defense. Give it a try, and be patient, but if he doesn't get it, don't let him change your mind. Your life is worth defending and so is your kids. Of course, you don't need me to tell you that or you wouldn't be here. Smiley Still, there's always a line between one partner being able to make their own choices and then pushing those choices on the other. Works both directions, too. So you can encourage him, but he's entitled not to like guns.

2.) Pellet guns, for the most part, are toys. Fun, but not effective. Have you shot larger calibers? If possible, go to a range that rents guns so you can get some practice with various ones.

3.) Make owning a gun a part of a larger security plan for your house.

Glad you're here. We need more women. I'm plotting a female take over of the world but its slow going because the boys have all the guns.

Perd Hapley

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« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2006, 03:08:13 AM »
Quote from: Barbara
Ha! No one has ever proposed to me! Tongue
Wonder why.  Tongue
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« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2006, 03:21:18 AM »
Shocking, isn't it?

Tongue

Art Eatman

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« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2006, 04:16:57 AM »
Hey, Marie!  Welcome!  Any number can play...

Something you might point out to your guy:  Ever had a major car wreck?  Ever had a house burn down?  Ever had a lawsuit stemming from an accident on your property?  Most folks haven't, but they still pay those insurance premiums, year after year after year.

Having a firearm and the competency to use it if necessary in a self-defense situation is nothing more than a different form of insurance.

All insurance of whatever sort is a protection against an unlikely event.  That an event is rare or unlikely does not at all affect the POSSIBILITY of its happening.

As far as kids'n'guns:  Take the lure of the illicit, the thrill of the Big Deal out of the equation.  What worked best for me, in the psychology of my own kid's mind when he was around five years old, was, "It's too big for you, now.  When YOU think you're big enough to shoot it, we'll go shoot it."  Old saying:  "You can't kid-proof a gun, but you can gun-proof a kid."  I gave my kid a Daisy Red Ryder when he was seven, the same age as when my mother gave me mine, Christmas of 1941.

Art
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Lee

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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2006, 05:03:32 AM »
Anti gun Republican from Ohio .  Please tell me that's an oxymoron.  He needs to call me. Smiley

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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2006, 05:28:50 AM »
Welcome to APS!

A lot of good advice given above, especially http://corneredcat.com.  thehighroad.com has a lot of good folks who can point you in the right direction.

As a parent, your commitment to your children outweighs a commitment to a boyfriend.  You are the one who is held responsible if your children end up injured.  No one else on earth will feel quite the same anguish if your children come to harm (save their other parent, maybe).

In other words, it is your life & your children...so it is your call.

Your dad is on the right track with regards to a .357mag revolver.  They are quite versatile.  About the only practical/technical advice I would add it that you would be well advised to buy a similar revolver, but chambered in the .22 long rifle caliber.  Almost no recoil and super cheap to shoot, a .22 revolver is a terrific training aid and companion to a .357mag revolver.  Also, your older child might be able to handle the .22 and could be taught proper gun handling skills and help nip the "forbidden fruit" aspect in the tuckus.

Pellet guns are not useful for defense.  They are fine for paper targets & some smaller pests.

Good luck!
Regards,

roo_ster

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« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2006, 06:29:04 AM »
Hi Marie.  Welcome!

You husband doesn't need to like guns per se, but he does need to respect you and your choice to own and use them.  If he tries to fordbid you form owning firearms, he is treating you like property rather than a human being, insulting your ability to comport yourself as a responsible adult, and denying you of a human right which many of our countrmen have bled and died to provide.  I'm sure your husband is a decent and nonorable man, but perhaps he should rethink his position a bit.

So long as you store and handle your firearms responsibly there is no rational reason for him to be afraid of your firearms.   A gun is simply a tool, no more or less dangerous than any countless otherpowerful tools we encounter in daily life.  Automobiles, for instance, are far more powerful, far more dangerous, and statiscitcally speaking, far more likely to injure someone.  The key with firearms, as with cars, is to learn how to use them safely and responsibly.  Your willingness to obtain proper firearms training is an admirable first step, and it demonstrates that you're the type of person that can and will exercise be safe with your weapons.

Guns come in a wide range of sizes.  The smaller and lighter a gun is, the easier it tends to be to keep close at hand so that it is avaiable for use should you ever need it.  The downside of smaller and lighter guns is that they are almost always less effective for protecting yourself than larger firearms.  Whe considering firearms for defense, keep this spectrum between copnvenience and effectiveness in mind.  

The snub nose .357 revolvers of the type you mentioned falls at the extremely small/convenient end of this spectrum.  It's prime advantage is that it would be fairly easy for you to conceal this gun on your person and carry it with you ever day.  For example, if you had to spend a day outside working on your property, it would be comparatively easy to carry this revolver on your belt or in a backpack - you wouldn't hardly know it was there untill you needed it.  The prime disadvantage is that it would be very difficult to aim and shoot accurately, due to it's small size, and you can't stop an attacker with a gun unless you can hit him/it.  For this reason I would consider it to be a mediocre choice for self defense.  A larger handgun might be a better choice - still small enough to carry easily, while being a bit easier to hit with.

At the other far end of this spectrum you'll find rifles and shotguns.  These tend to be at least 3 feet long and weigh 7 pounds or more.  This makes them terribly inconvenient to keep close at hand.  The great thing about long guns, however, is that they are devastatingly effective at stopping an attacking animal or criminal.  They are far easier to hit with compared to handguns, and most long guns are far more effective at stopping whatever attacker once you do hit them.  I believe that everyone, especially people who live in the countryside, ought to own at least one good rifle or shotgun.

Your pellet gun should be thought of as a training tool, and NOT as a defensive weapon.  A .177 pellet absolutely will NOT stop any sort of attacker, be it an animal or a criminal.  Pellet guns a great for practice and training, however.  Making a tin can bounce around on the ground with a pellet gun is lots of fun, and is excellent practice as well.  So "play" with it and have a good time.


Well, anyway, welcome to APS.  We're all happy to help if we can, so don't hesitate to ask.  Perhaps you could send your husmand over here to peruse some of these posts.  He'll probably find that our politics, and maybe even gun ownership in generall, agree with him.

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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2006, 07:07:35 AM »
Barb, I would but I'm not sure my wife would be on board with the idea. Tongue
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« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2006, 07:33:23 AM »
Marie, a lot of people seem to be giving you the, "So, you want to know what a gun is." treatment.  If that annoys you, perhaps you could inform us on your level of experience with guns.
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« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2006, 07:58:32 AM »
Marie,
All I have to say is welcome aboard, and well done.  You are taking responsiblity for your safety, and that of your children.  That is outstanding.

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« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2006, 09:34:03 AM »
Welcome Marie,
We are neighbors.  I'm just down the 'strait' from you.  I've been here since APS started, just don't post too much.  It's a great forum as is The High Road.  As for which gun is best, that is entirely up to you.  You may want to rent a few and find what you prefer before you buy.
Good luck and don't worry about the boyfriend.  Do your own thing, and you may be surprised that he suddenly gains an interest.
Be warned about my advice.  My liberal hippy boyfriend left me 2 months ago, because of our differences.  However, it was the best thing that could have happened, life is good!

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« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2006, 09:53:41 AM »
Correction.

Quote
Pellet guns are not useful for defense.  They are fine for paper targets & some smaller pests.
Revised:

"Pellet guns are not useful for defense.  They are fine for use on paper targets & some smaller pests, including anti-gun Republicans from Ohio."    Wink
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« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2006, 10:43:24 AM »
Yea, you just gotta aim low and around back, that's where their brains are...

Tongue
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