Mandela's dead

[lee n. field]

Just saw it.  Nelson Mandela dead. 

So, what happens with SA now?

[Phyphor]

Burning tire necklaces for everyone? 

[HankB]

Burning tire necklaces for everyone? 

That depends . . . is Winnie still around? 

[MechAg94]

Just saw it.  Nelson Mandela dead. 

So, what happens with SA now?

  I thought I heard it was heading downhill already. 

[Scout26]

IIRC Mandela hasn't been in charge for a while now, though the ANC is still in power.   Jocasse can confirm but the ANC was originally communist, though they may have lighten up to only socialist/liberal since gaining power.   But still enough to make things worse, but not Zimbabwe worse.

[Boomhauer]

OK what's the real story on Mandela and SA? I know that in school Mandela was portrayed as a wonderful peace activist but what's the "rest of the story"?

[Gowen]

I remember back in the 90's that his wife was involved in necklacing any opposition while he was in jail.  For what is worth, I believe that he's been dead for a few months now, they just were waiting for the right time.

[Scout26]

OK what's the real story on Mandela and SA? I know that in school Mandela was portrayed as a wonderful peace activist but what's the "rest of the story"?

Mmmmm, not quite the "Ghandi" that he is portrayed to be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_African_National_Congress

[Jocassee]

Mandela did help with the planning and execution of attacks on strategic targets. However his later life he embraced only non violence and became a truly transformational figure. The new SA would not exist without mandela and he is to be commended for stepping down after only one term as president The ANC and SA have a lot of problems but Mandela was not one of them. I hesitate to confer the adjective "good" on any public figure but many good things came from his work IMO.

[Balog]

Didn't he also steal farms from whites solely on the basis of their race? I don't have much sympathy for Communists.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I think it's a matter of perspective . there's a video of him singing a song about killing whites in 92. younger folks thats ancient history to me not so much. and there is the pesky matter of the  50,000 Inkathka members that were slaughtered. men women and children. is how they suppress the Zulu tribe winning the election

damn phone

[HankB]

Didn't he also steal farms from whites solely on the basis of their race? I don't have much sympathy for Communists.

Couple of years ago I read that SA was flirting with Zimbabwe-style land seizures, but euphemistically calling it a "willing seller/willing buyer" program or some such.

[Jocassee]

Couple of years ago I read that SA was flirting with Zimbabwe-style land seizures, but euphemistically calling it a "willing seller/willing buyer" program or some such.

I will put up a more complete post when i have access to a PC. i certainly do not support outright land seizure and theft but it is hard for americans to imagine the scale of inequality which has existed until very recently in RSA. A lot of things could have gone much, much worse in South Africa (and may still) but Mandela was a very moderating force on political tension from both sides and races.

A little bit of land redistribution is nothing compared to 300 years of unchecked colonialism. The Africans aren't lily white of course

[RoadKingLarry]

The Africans aren't lily white of course

 

[brimic]

Just another dead charismatic face of a genocidal communist movement.
Good riddance.

<----this guy doesn't have enough 'white guilt' to fellate the man.

[HankB]

. . . A little bit of land redistribution is nothing compared to 300 years of unchecked colonialism . . .

Land redistribution is what's made Zimbabwe the economic powerhouse it is today, and a shining human rights beacon for the rest of Africa to emulate.

[K Frame]

Mandela is to be commended for one thing most of all...

When aparthied started to collapse, he could have easily let South Africa fall into absolute anarchy and catastrophic racial violence.

He didn't let that happen. His word carried enough weight that it largely prevented widespread violence.

[roo_ster]

Just another dead charismatic face of a genocidal communist movement.
Good riddance.

<----this guy doesn't have enough 'white guilt' to fellate the man.

Yeah, I save my praise for non-communists who don't belong to hideously murderous organizations.  I mean, really, he deserves canonization for NOT proposing genocide?  Setting the standard pretty low, are we not?  He was Obamatastic before Obama got HIS Nobel Prize for Peace and Just Because.

[brimic]

Yeah, I save my praise for non-communists who don't belong to hideously murderous organizations.  I mean, really, he deserves canonization for NOT proposing genocide?  Setting the standard pretty low, are we not?  He was Obamatastic before Obama got HIS Nobel Prize for Peace and Just Because.

S.A. was hopey-changey before America was.

[Scout26]

Mandela is to be commended for one thing most of all...

When aparthied started to collapse, he could have easily let South Africa fall into absolute anarchy and catastrophic racial violence.

He didn't let that happen. His word carried enough weight that it largely prevented widespread violence.

Hoping that this doesn't create a Singularity, but I have to agree with Mike once again.

All one has to do is look at the experience of other African nations (Rhodesia/Zimbabwe or the Congo anyone) for examples.  When they finally got rid of their colonial/white rulers, that things went all pear shaped and it was open season on, not only any whites remaining, but minority tribes, and any one who worked with/for the former .gov.

Mandela prevented that and did provide a smooth transition with almost zero bloodshed.   For doing that, he truly did earn the Nobel Peace Prize.  Unlike many others who, IMNSHO, have not.

[makattak]

Yeah, I save my praise for non-communists who don't belong to hideously murderous organizations.  I mean, really, he deserves canonization for NOT proposing genocide?  Setting the standard pretty low, are we not?  He was Obamatastic before Obama got HIS Nobel Prize for Peace and Just Because.

Hoping that this doesn't create a Singularity, but I have to agree with Mike once again.

All one has to do is look at the experience of other African nations (Rhodesia/Zimbabwe or the Congo anyone) for examples.  When they finally got rid of their colonial/white rulers, that things went all pear shaped and it was open season on, not only any whites remaining, but minority tribes, and any one who worked with/for the former .gov.

Mandela prevented that and did provide a smooth transition with almost zero bloodshed.   For doing that, he truly did earn the Nobel Peace Prize.  Unlike many others who, IMNSHO, have not.

I have to side with Scout here. Yes, he actually does deserve praise for not even proposing genocide. He also deserves praise for preventing genocide. Looking at all the similar countries, MANY people were looking for revenge.

I will not and can not praise him for much of the rest of his life, but he does deserve praise for his actions to prevent widespread mayhem.

[Gowen]

Mandela did help with the planning and execution of attacks on strategic targets. However his later life he embraced only non violence and became a truly transformational figure. The new SA would not exist without mandela and he is to be commended for stepping down after only one term as president The ANC and SA have a lot of problems but Mandela was not one of them. I hesitate to confer the adjective "good" on any public figure but many good things came from his work IMO.

It's real easy to preach non violence when you're the guy in power.

[roo_ster]

Quite the low bar for hagiography. 

[Scout26]

It's real easy to preach non violence when you're the guy in power.

Actually it is not.   Look at every other transformation of power.  Most revolutions (e.g. France, Russia, China, Cambodia, Vietnam) they manage to not only kill the former ruling class, but then go on to expand the killings to those who had nothing to do with old regime and/or settle old scores and/or consolidate power.  Even in former colonies most things go pear shaped and the blood flows (and continues to flow in some places) as tribes extract revenge on everyone "not us". 

It fact it is extremely rare when a transfer of power takes places WITHOUT significant bloodshed.  Blacks had been suppressed for a long, long time in SA, and there were quite a few who wanted to "Get Some", when De Klerk handed over power.  The fact that it didn't is due entirely to Mandela.

[Waitone]

Mandela was a human subject to all limitations of all humans who have ever lived.  Those who suffer grotesque injustices don't just dismiss it.  His public persona may well be one of public forgiveness but he no doubt suffered grand psychological damage. 

http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/06/richard-stengel-mandela-no-santa-claus-video/