traffic camera footage of 40 car pile up in Wisconsin

[Firethorn]

The day of that pileup, I was stunned at the vehicles who slid through city intersections, when only a fraction of an inch of snow had dropped.   

In my experience it's less about the depth of the snow than it is the temperature/condition of it.  IE it can be slicker with that fraction, than with several inches.  Heck, at least with several inches you have a substantial amount of drag involved with plowing through it.

[Sergeant Bob]

Must be a bunch of native Texans that were going to a Packer's game.

Ya don't have to be from Texas (yes, I realize that was tongue in cheek) to drive stupid in the snow. There is plenty of stupid to go around (as evidenced by the video) in the northern states. The majority of people are herd animals (another thing my high school Metal Shop teacher used to say was "Don't follow the herd") and it is just by sheer luck they don't crash and burn, a lot of truck drivers included. Though, as most truckers have CB radios, they often do have prior warning of situations such as the one in the video.

My motto when driving on snow and ice is "Make sure you have enough room in front of you to stop, then double that".

[Ben]

Maybe it was just me, but some of those people looked like they actually started speeding up in a "Freakin' slowpokes, get out of my way!" kind of way. Right before they crashed or spun off the road. I felt sorry for the people that stopped to get out and help others. That was like real life Frogger.

[brimic]

In my experience it's less about the depth of the snow than it is the temperature/condition of it.  IE it can be slicker with that fraction, than with several inches.  Heck, at least with several inches you have a substantial amount of drag involved with plowing through it.

There is always a pileup with the first snowfall.
My theory on this:
The road has soaked up 7 months of oil/antifreeze/transmission fluid, when the first snow falls, you get a surface that is slick as wet ice.
After the first significant snowfall, our roads get buried in salt and sand. This grit is ground into the surface of the road by traffic. The next snowfall comes and you have snow on top of a much less slippery surface.

[Ben]

There is always a pileup with the first snowfall.
My theory on this:
The road has soaked up 7 months of oil/antifreeze/transmission fluid, when the first snow falls, you get a surface that is slick as wet ice.
After the first significant snowfall, our roads get buried in salt and sand. This grit is ground into the surface of the road by traffic. The next snowfall comes and you have snow on top of a much less slippery surface.

Pretty much what happens here, except with rain. It's especially bad if the first rain is light enough that idiots don't adjust to conditions, but just heavy enough to soak the road well and bring up the oil. If the first rain is heavy, most people will slow down, and a fast, heavy rain will also wash the oil off the road faster.

[MechAg94]

Pretty much what happens here, except with rain. It's especially bad if the first rain is light enough that idiots don't adjust to conditions, but just heavy enough to soak the road well and bring up the oil. If the first rain is heavy, most people will slow down, and a fast, heavy rain will also wash the oil off the road faster.

I have no problem with people slowing down for rain.  I DO have a problem with idiots who slam on the brakes (not coasting down, but braking hard) as soon as they drive into a rain storm.  They don't do it before, they do it after they are already on a wet road.  I think some people are just oblivious to driving conditions and other traffic until it smacks them in the forehead. 

[MechAg94]

One thing that surprised me a bit was that after there were cars all over the place, you still see new traffic coming in going way way too fast.  I can only assume they steered around people who were slowing down and didn't realize there was a problem. 

The other thing was seeing those people standing on the shoulder outside their vehicles gawking at traffic screaming in.  They nearly got ran over before they ran for safety. 

[Ben]

I have no problem with people slowing down for rain.  I DO have a problem with idiots who slam on the brakes (not coasting down, but braking hard) as soon as they drive into a rain storm.  They don't do it before, they do it after they are already on a wet road.  I think some people are just oblivious to driving conditions and other traffic until it smacks them in the forehead. 

Yeah, me too. Not just with rain. On my old commute to my previous office, heading East in the morning certain times of year, there is a bend in the freeway that points you right into the rising sun at rush hour. People go from 60MPH to 30MPH in half a second. I always kept several car lengths between me and the person in front of me during that commute, even with the frustration of people constantly merging into the space I was keeping, because invariably, I always had a tailgater three feet behind me. Doing so saved me from rear ending someone or being rear ended on more occasions than I can count.

[fifth_column]

Yeah, me too. Not just with rain. On my old commute to my previous office, heading East in the morning certain times of year, there is a bend in the freeway that points you right into the rising sun at rush hour. People go from 60MPH to 30MPH in half a second. I always kept several car lengths between me and the person in front of me during that commute, even with the frustration of people constantly merging into the space I was keeping, because invariably, I always had a tailgater three feet behind me. Doing so saved me from rear ending someone or being rear ended on more occasions than I can count.

There's a similar spot on my commute.  I've noticed that since on occasion there is a legitimate reason to slow down there, people develop an unconscious, ingrained habit of slowing down there.  So even on occasions when there is literally no reason to slow down, people still do.  Unconscious and unaware of the reason.  So it becomes a matter of traffic slowing down there because, well, this is the spot where we slow down. 

This is something I've seen in numerous locations on many different commutes over the years.  And it's one more piece that has led to my theory that when people get behind the wheel they turn off their brains.  They are literally driving the same way they did at 16, or whenever they learned how to drive, there has been no conscious effort to make improvements in their skills. 

[brimic]

On the way in to work this morning a strange idea occurred to me-
When the snow starts to fall, the Sheriff's department should take an old car and drive it into a ditch or a median before rush hour traffic and leave it there. It would do a good job of slowing down traffic a bit. 

[fifth_column]

On the way in to work this morning a strange idea occurred to me-
When the snow starts to fall, the Sheriff's department should take an old car and drive it into a ditch or a median before rush hour traffic and leave it there. It would do a good job of slowing down traffic a bit. 

From what I've observed it would slow traffic to a crawl going both directions.  All it takes is a single car on the shoulder, even if it's literally 6 feet from the edge of the lane, to make people be "cautious."  Cautious apparently means coming to a complete stop, after all less speed equals more safety right?  So a complete stop equals ultimate safety.  And of course if somebody is using their brakes three lanes away, well of course you should put on your brakes also.  It's gotten to the point that unthinking, unaware drivers are actually creating hazardous conditions in a misguided attempt to achieve safety.

[Tallpine]

Right after we got married 32 years ago, we had to drive from CS to Denver to pick up her brother coming home from college the evening before thanksgiving.

Of course it was snowing like heck and traffic was crazy.  We had her old VW bug.  We just plugged along while scraping ice off the inside of the windows 

Cars were in the ditch everywhere.  Just coming back into the north side of CS, some guy decided we were going too slow and tried to pass.  He got just about even with us and I heard this horrible scraping sound.  I looked to the left and the other car just moved away sideways until he went off into the median in a plume of snow 

We just kept going.  I sure wasn't as heck about to stop out there so someone could run into us.

[MechAg94]

, there has been no conscious effort to make improvements in their skills. 

This is key.  I think a lot of people put little or no thought into how they are driving and what they might do better.  No self analysis. 

[Hawkmoon]

This is key.  I think a lot of people put little or no thought into how they are driving and what they might do better.  No self analysis. 

Of course there is self analysis. Each and every one of them knows that he/she is the best, safest driver on the road. It's all the other drivers who create the problems.

[Balog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

[geronimotwo]

This is key.  I think a lot of people put little or no thought into how they are driving and what they might do better.  No self analysis. 

but, until i hit the brakes, the roads were fine.

[RoadKingLarry]

Pretty much what happens here, except with rain. It's especially bad if the first rain is light enough that idiots don't adjust to conditions, but just heavy enough to soak the road well and bring up the oil. If the first rain is heavy, most people will slow down, and a fast, heavy rain will also wash the oil off the road faster.

Yup, wife had an object lesson in that back in '83. We were living in Vallejo at the time and I had been  TAD to San Diego for a couple of weeks. She was on her way to the airport to pick me up during the 1st rain of the season. She managed a head on with a VW bug in our 3 month old Dodge pick up. Nobody hurt and the truck had more damage than the VW.

[fifth_column]

Of course there is self analysis. Each and every one of them knows that he/she is the best, safest driver on the road. It's all the other drivers who create the problems.

Very true.  And as the saying goes, if one knows everything, learning anything is impossible.  Actually I think I might have just made that up.

Balog, that Dunning-Kruger effect looks interesting, thanks. 

Brimic mentioned earlier the fact that people will hang out in the left lane as what he called 'enforcers.'  I see this also, I think of them as 'left-lane mavens.'  My thoughts on this: 

People assume their level of competence, or lack thereof, is the same as others, which is why they feel that no one should go over the speed limit, since they themselves are incapable of driving safely.  This is like me saying no one should own a .357 because I am incapable of hitting the broad side of a barn with one, so of course no one else could possibly be able to, leading to dangerous situations. 

Many times these people camped out in the left lane are not trying to enforce their will on others, they are just lazy, and don't feel like changing lanes.  Because, you know, it's so much work to change lanes.  This and the fact that they barely have enough technical skill to change lanes in the first place.

[Ben]

People assume their level of competence, or lack thereof, is the same as others, which is why they feel that no one should go over the speed limit, since they themselves are incapable of driving safely.  This is like me saying no one should own a .357 because I am incapable of hitting the broad side of a barn with one, so of course no one else could possibly be able to, leading to dangerous situations. 

Many times these people camped out in the left lane are not trying to enforce their will on others, they are just lazy, and don't feel like changing lanes.  Because, you know, it's so much work to change lanes.  This and the fact that they barely have enough technical skill to change lanes in the first place.

Okay, reading that made me realize I think, that I'm one of those people, and I bet others here are too, but we, and others on the road don't notice it as much because of where "enforcer" kicks in. I always cuss when I get behind someone doing 65 in a 65 limit in the left lane. Why won't they get over so I can drive 75? But when I'm driving 75 and somebody comes up behind me doing 85, well Fifth Columns' post got me thinking that I do this enforcer thing myself a lot. "I'm already doing 75! If you wanna go faster, go around me!". If the road is fairly empty and there's no one a few car lengths ahead of me doing the same speed as me (which doesn't gain the guy behind me much) I might grudgingly slide over, but if it's busy and I have to slide over and slow down for traffic in the next lane, I often won't do it. My enforcement just isn't as noticeable because I'm probably in the 'average' of traffic flow, but the principle is still the same.

[Tallpine]

Trouble is that some places there is enough traffic that if you want to drive the speed limit, you have to stay in the left lane most of the time because the bumper to bunper right lane is going well below the speed limit.

So I guess that you think that I should slow down from 75 to 65 just so you can drive 85

[fifth_column]

Okay, reading that made me realize I think, that I'm one of those people (snip . . .)

Way to go Ben!  Gaining true knowledge is often a process of unlearning what you think you know.

True freedom can only be realized when one allows others their freedom.

[fifth_column]

Trouble is that some places there is enough traffic that if you want to drive the speed limit, you have to stay in the left lane most of the time because the bumper to bunper right lane is going well below the speed limit.

So I guess that you think that I should slow down from 75 to 65 just so you can drive 85

I think that if you're going to travel in the left lane during heavy traffic you are obligated to travel at the speed those in the left lane are going.  If you don't want to go that speed (wait for it . . . .) GET OUT OF THE LEFT LANE!!!

[makattak]

Okay, reading that made me realize I think, that I'm one of those people, and I bet others here are too, but we, and others on the road don't notice it as much because of where "enforcer" kicks in. I always cuss when I get behind someone doing 65 in a 65 limit in the left lane. Why won't they get over so I can drive 75? But when I'm driving 75 and somebody comes up behind me doing 85, well Fifth Columns' post got me thinking that I do this enforcer thing myself a lot. "I'm already doing 75! If you wanna go faster, go around me!". If the road is fairly empty and there's no one a few car lengths ahead of me doing the same speed as me (which doesn't gain the guy behind me much) I might grudgingly slide over, but if it's busy and I have to slide over and slow down for traffic in the next lane, I often won't do it. My enforcement just isn't as noticeable because I'm probably in the 'average' of traffic flow, but the principle is still the same.

My wife is one of the left lane drivers. Not out of an "enforcer" attitude, she just doesn't like being in the right lane. This, of course, combined with her tendency not to plan ahead for when an exit is approaching means she often misses her exits on the interstate.

I, on the other hand, only drive in the left lane if I am passing or there's a stream of traffic in all the lanes anyway. And if someone comes quickly up on my rear, I move over when possible. My opinion is if they want to drive that much faster than me, they can attract the police's attention and I can be ignored.

[Ben]

I think that if you're going to travel in the left lane during heavy traffic you are obligated to travel at the speed those in the left lane are going.  If you don't want to go that speed (wait for it . . . .) GET OUT OF THE LEFT LANE!!!

He lives in Montana. People either drive 90MPH in their trucks, or 10MPH in their tractors. 

[geronimotwo]

my personal favorites are the guys on my a$$ who feel that if i'm not touching the bumper of the car ahead of me then i should be in the right lane.  flashing their high beams, then they pass in the right lane giving you dirty looks and cut back in line 10ft ahead (intruding on my safe braking distance).  then they do the same to the next 10 cars that were ahead of me in the line of traffic.