An Aluminum F-150

[Ben]

2014 F-150s are shifting to aluminum. Thoughts?

The article doesn't go into great detail on if the whole outer body is going to aluminum, or what. I can't imagine the bed sidewalls going aluminum, but I don't know that much about metal strengths for that type of application. It just, on the surface, seems a bad idea to put too much lightweight metal on a truck, at least aft of the cab. Unless maybe it's a brilliant marketing move to turn the F-150 completely into an urban leisure vehicle, and push people who need trucks for utility value into the much more expensive F-250s and F-350s.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/02/autos/aluminum-f150/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

[Nick1911]

My concerns are 1) cost, and 2) corrosion.

[Brad Johnson]

Depends on the engineering.  Short of the applications like the bedsides you mentioned, why not?  So long as the engineering is sound, I'm good with it.  Will have to be careful attention paid to fasteners and galvanic corrosion issues, but engines and trannies have been mixed metallurgy for decades so I figure they have those issues lined out as well.

If nothing else it will be nice to have a full size truck that gets mid to high 20 mpg numbers, performs far better, and doesn't suffer from tin worm infestation.

Brad

[mtnbkr]

I've been riding aluminum mountain bikes for nearly 20 years.  When designed correctly, they're just as durable as steel bikes, but lighter.  You also have more flexibility in design with aluminum (can't do monocoque steel bikes, at least not that are light or affordable).  I know a bike isn't a truck, but bikes show proper engineering delivers good durability.  Also, mountain bikes are subject to impacts against the frame and dents, cracks, etc haven't been a huge problem.

I think it'll work well for them.

Chris

[Harold Tuttle]

[Ben]

Depends on the engineering.  Short of the applications like the bedsides you mentioned, why not?  

The bedside is my only concern, really (I don't think they could do it in the bed itself?). Most trucks already have plastic hoods and other lightweight body replacements in the cab area. My question is just that with as much aluminum as they are going to use, is if there is any room left in the cab area for more, or if they will have to move to the "utility" area of the truck, and how that will hold up to use. Or again, if they care, because I think a LOT of F-150s never see more in the bed than an occasional big screen TV or appliance, hauled from the store to home.

[roo_ster]

For a while I read that Ford was going to introduce a "F-100" to replace the Ranger, which would have been sort of a lightweight F150.  That would have been a good compromise for the "load of mulch once a month" folks who currently buy F-150s.

[Tallpine]

Yeah, that was my first thought 

Also, many OTR truck-tractors are made partially or mostly of aluminum and fiberglass.

[dogmush]

Methinks Aluminum can handle anything that should be in a 1/2 ton truck, or more.

[Tallpine]

Methinks Aluminum can handle anything that should be in a 1/2 ton truck, or more.

Yeah, and then maybe they can save enough weight so that they can start making things like door latches and tailgate latches strong enough to last decades again instead of just a few years. 

[Ben]

That's interesting. I didn't know it was so prevalent in military vehicles. On the boat, we have a 62' aluminum cat at work, and have actually had some problems with the hull, mostly at the welds I think (I'm not one of our boat guys). We've actually had to limit it to 6' swell or less.

[Triphammer]

I had a '68 F-100. From before the F-150s existed. The 100 was beefier than 150s are today or have been for a while. They put heavier springs on the 100 & made a "Heavy Half" people thought of it as a "light" 3/4"  but it wasn't.
 Aluminum? The HMMV's have been aluminum for almost twenty years now.

[AJ Dual]

I’m sure there’s a ton of price-point economic reasons for it, and engineering ones, but it kind of pisses me off that cars haven’t used even more non-ferrous materials already.  Knowing the second most expensive purchase you’re likely to ever make in your life is just slowly rusting year after year is kind of maddening.

And yes, aluminum can/will corrode, especially if it’s joined in certain particularly nasty dissimilar metal combinations, or God forbid, exposed to mercury, but in general, as compared to mild steel, carbon steel etc. in general outdoor applications, it performs infinitely better.

[brimic]

Corrosion is a feaure, not a bug to car manufacturers.
The ideal car will hold up for 7 or so years then rust apart.

[geronimotwo]

I’m sure there’s a ton of price-point economic reasons for it, and engineering ones, but it kind of pisses me off that cars haven’t used even more non-ferrous materials already.  Knowing the second most expensive purchase you’re likely to ever make in your life is just slowly rusting year after year is kind of maddening.

And yes, aluminum can/will corrode, especially if it’s joined in certain particularly nasty dissimilar metal combinations, or God forbid, exposed to mercury, but in general, as compared to mild steel, carbon steel etc. in general outdoor applications, it performs infinitely better.

i'm rather surprised that plastic cars aren't more prevelant, especially in the rustbelt.  a lot of the corrosion problems with aluminum would happen at the welds, but  now they have better methods that keeps the o2 from getting in.  i am curious what the weight savings will be.

That's interesting. I didn't know it was so prevalent in military vehicles. On the boat, we have a 62' aluminum cat at work, and have actually had some problems with the hull, mostly at the welds I think (I'm not one of our boat guys). We've actually had to limit it to 6' swell or less.

so, in the pacific, what percentage of time do you have less than 6' swells?

[Brad Johnson]

  i am curious what the weight savings will be.

A similarly performing aluminum component will be roughly 1/3 lighter than its steel counterpart.  Aluminum is roughly one-third the volumetric weight of steel, but it takes twice as much to mimic the structural strength/characteristics of steel.  Structural engineering makes a big difference, too, and modern engineering systems can easily maximize characteristics to take advantage of metallurgy.

Brad

[brimic]

i'm rather surprised that plastic cars aren't more prevelant, especially in the rustbelt.  a lot of the corrosion problems with aluminum would happen at the welds, but  now they have better methods that keeps the o2 from getting in.  i am curious what the weight savings will be.

IIRC, Saturns were made pretty much of polymer body panels- I still see a lot of 20+ year old Saturns on the road.

[MillCreek]

^^^ I always thought the polymer panels on the Saturn were a great idea.  I wonder why they were not widely adopted and for that matter, why don't you see them on cars being built today? 

[Tallpine]

Corrosion is a feaure, not a bug to car manufacturers.
The ideal car will hold up for 7 or so years then rust apart.

Or else the plastic parts will break in the cold weather.  Eventually, you can't turn on/off the lights, heater, etc because the dash and/or switches have fallen apart in your hands.  Or some electronic part that costs more than the car is worth fails.

Unless you drive 50K - 100K miles/year, you can't really wear out the engine on a modern car before the car falls apart.  Too bad these computerized engines don't readily adapt to a wood splitter or sawmill, etc ....

[MechAg94]

Corrosion is a feaure, not a bug to car manufacturers.
The ideal car will hold up for 7 or so years then rust apart.

So move somewhere where they don't salt the roads and it won't do that.  My old Chevy truck was 9 years old.  I sold it to my Dad two years ago.  The original paint job is in great shape.  It still looks the same and always makes me wonder why I got a new truck.  Light duty is probably too heavy for what I used it for.  It had a tonneu cover on the back for most of it's life.

[Ben]

so, in the pacific, what percentage of time do you have less than 6' swells?

To be more accurate, it's >6', 30kts, and some swell period. Like I said, I'm not a boat guy.

It CAN go out in the above, but they found the design (by All American) just doesn't handle the short period pounding well.

[Gewehr98]

So move somewhere where they don't salt the roads and it won't do that.

Dunno - I saw lots of rusty cars in Florida.  I lived on the Atlantic coast, so cars there rusted from the top down, vs. bottom-up in the snowbelt states.

[Fly320s]

2014 F-150s are shifting to aluminum. Thoughts?

Never buy the first production run of anything. You're not getting paid to be a test engineer. Let someone else work out the bugs.

[Ben]

Dunno - I saw lots of rusty cars in Florida.  

So I've always wondered - is that heat plus humidity at the ocean or something? For probably 16 years I was parking at work literally less than 100 yards from the ocean, at near sea level, and have never had a rust problem on my vehicles. My Trooper parked there for 12 years straight. We get plenty of fog that has got to be coating vehicles with salty fog droplets. That said, I'm pretty meticulous about washing and waxing, and I certainly saw plenty of rusty vehicles the same age or newer than mine when I still parked there. Now I park maybe a couple of hundred yards from the ocean, but around 100 or so feet up on a bluff, so probably don't get near as much "sea spray" as I used to.

Curious if that's also the same with snowy areas - if you wash the car and try and spray the underside as best you can on a regular basis, do you preserve the vehicle a bit longer than those who don't wash wax, or is road salt just the rust devil incarnate?

[brimic]

Curious if that's also the same with snowy areas - if you wash the car and try and spray the underside as best you can on a regular basis, do you preserve the vehicle a bit longer than those who don't wash wax, or is road salt just the rust devil incarnate?

Yep. the difference between a car that rusts out in 5 years and one that rusts out in 15 is a matter of maintenance and a few paint chips.
Rock salt presents two problems- when its not dissolved it tends to chip paint in the fender wells and the front of the hood, when it dissoves, it gets trapped in the folds of the body where you may or may not be able to wash it out.