Trouble in Ukraine

[tokugawa]

I'm very glad I live in the US, no matter how unhappy I am with our political climate.

 Me too, I wish I believed it was going to stay like this- but I think it is going to get worse beyond our imagining.  Usually when things get bad the big bosses blame an external enemy or start a war- this crowd is gonna blame an internal enemy.

[AZRedhawk44]

http://rt.com/news/weapons-protesters-kiev-police-745/

Rioters have obtained 1500 firearms and 100k rounds of ammo recently.

Link has a couple pics of one of the "firearms" which really looks like an air rifle, to me.  Barrel appears too thin even to be a .22LR.

[roo_ster]

http://rt.com/news/weapons-protesters-kiev-police-745/

Rioters have obtained 1500 firearms and 100k rounds of ammo recently.

Link has a couple pics of one of the "firearms" which really looks like an air rifle, to me.  Barrel appears too thin even to be a .22LR.

Yeah, looks like an under-crank piston air rifle.  Could be some oddball .22LR with tube mag, though.

[charby]

Yeah, looks like an under-crank piston air rifle.  Could be some oddball .22LR with tube mag, though.

It's an air rifle, I have Russian made air pistol with similar action.

[MillCreek]

You could put your eye out, kid!

[charby]

You could put your eye out, kid!

Rev Jesse Jackson will probably say it can shoot down a plane and blow up trains.

(Hey Rev Jesse Jackson I hope your web bot reads this)

[Balog]

Russia Today is Putin's propaganda arm, I wouldn't take anything they say too seriously.

[Balog]

Lviv has seceded from Yanukovich's .gov and set up a pro-maidan one. Protests spreading to Odessa and Poltova. SBU (Ukraine's KGB) in Khelmnitsky shot protesters, got their building burned. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DipJOV01Pr4 Governor of Lutsk drug into the street and beaten. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lpw5-PYzIns

[Balog]

Zhytomyr police station burning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fRoGzYI2BNM

[Balog]

Yanukovich announces "truce" which as I read it is merely backing off on the crackdown of the last two nights. The opposition "leaders" are fragmented and not in control of the crowds, I don't see it lasting. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/02/19/ukrainian-president-announces-and-protesters-have-agreed-to-truce/

[Balog]

Bloody aftermath. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a51_1392842183

[Balog]

They started wide scale shooting of protesters. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0DxkDiAcSF8

[Balog]

Some of those killed in a morgue.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bg62gBTCcAEgDn-.jpg:large

[Balog]

Cops throwing molotovs at protesters.



More cops shooting people. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T6IbEIBhb8o

[Balog]

One of those reported killed by police fire, a young medic.

[lee n. field]

http://rt.com/news/weapons-protesters-kiev-police-745/

Rioters have obtained 1500 firearms and 100k rounds of ammo recently.

Link has a couple pics of one of the "firearms" which really looks like an air rifle, to me.  Barrel appears too thin even to be a .22LR.

http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/22/9b/10/00/rtx191vn.si.jpg

http://rt.com/files/news/22/9b/10/00/rtx192p5.jpg

Yup.  Cheap Chinese underlever cocking spring piston gun.  I had one like it once.

[Balog]

Village blocks access to one border crossing into Poland. http://www.euronews.com/2014/02/19/ukraine-protests-spread-to-polish-border/

[Balog]

Ukie version of the NRA is calling gun owners to arms. !!!

http://zbroya.info/ru/blog/2655_obrashchenie-k-vladeltsam-oruzhiia/

Gun owners .

We know that you are the most reasonable and responsible part of Ukrainian society , which is still not involved in the confrontation .

But, unfortunately , the conflict entered into armed .

Control of the situation actually lost.

Now each of us has a personal responsibility for their own safety and that of his family, and at such a difficult time and the safety of their fellow countrymen.

Weapon in the hands of responsible citizens at all times was the best peacemaker.

We urge you to act according to his own beliefs and universal moral values ??and , if necessary , to give a rebuff to criminals . The rest rely on your judgment and responsibility.

Ukrainian Association of gun owners .

P.S. On coordination in the field - please contact : info@zbroya.info

[Balog]

[Balog]

Lot of good pictures. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukraine-crisis-shocking-photos-injured-dead-kiev-1437260

[Balog]

From a couple hours ago.

"Steve Rosenberg @BBCSteveR
Armed protestors (pistols, crowbars and baseball bats) are searching rooms in our hotel, looking for snipers"

[Balog]

Parliament has voted that all troops cease fire and leave the capitol, and ordered police to cease firing on protesters. Let's see if they listen to Parliament or Yanukovich.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if the troops and cops decide its time to really not play nice it will get really ugly really fast.   and while numbers are nice the quality/quantity of arms may prove more than the protesters bargained for.  best hope is enough troops and cops switch sides

[roo_ster]

if the troops and cops decide its time to really not play nice it will get really ugly really fast.   and while numbers are nice the quality/quantity of arms may prove more than the protesters bargained for.  best hope is enough troops and cops switch sides

It was my understanding that Army & Police were not participating and that it was some sort of special internal security force battling the protesters.  I could be wrong, of course, but I would think that...
Army + Police = Rousted Protesters
...even if Army & Police were armed with nothing more than sticks.

[RevDisk]

if the troops and cops decide its time to really not play nice it will get really ugly really fast.   and while numbers are nice the quality/quantity of arms may prove more than the protesters bargained for.  best hope is enough troops and cops switch sides

Problem with mowing down the protestors is it will drive the moderates to pick sides. I don't like the OWS crowds. Most of the folks here don't like the OWS folks. But if troops and cops started mowing them down in job lots for daring to question the government... I have a feeling most of us would not take kindly to such things.

Taking off the gloves is fine, if you have the guts to go the whole way and enough indoctrinated cadre to enforce your will.
If you bluff and folks call it, you have an actual civil war.
If you bluff and REALLY fumble it, you have NATO and Russia fighting a hot war on your turf.

I think even the corrupt politicians know that Russia wants to regain control of the Ukraine. If it becomes bad enough that significant Russian forces are needed to hold power, said Russians are not likely to leave at the end of the war.