Author Topic: Lawmakers Push to Protect Power Grid (Read 13269 times)

brimic · « **Reply #25 on:** February 08, 2014, 11:09:04 AM »

Quote from: French G. on February 08, 2014, 03:34:33 AM

Pretty sure the latest power bomb tech is graphite fiber. That'd be a mess. Here's a fun thing I confirmed recently, I wondered if transformer oil was still full of PCBs. I'm guessing yep now. Local substation went up in smoke last summer. Construction work on that thing took six months to replace one transformer. Everything got dug up.

'Yep' would be correct.
A friend of mine is an analytical chemist for a waste disposal service- he turns away shipments of old transformers all the time for that reason.

MillCreek · « **Reply #26 on:** February 08, 2014, 11:18:21 AM »

In the WSJ article, the point was made that transformers are a custom item and can take months to manufacture.

The country's roughly 2,000 very large transformers are expensive to build, often costing millions of dollars each, and hard to replace. Each is custom made and weighs up to 500,000 pounds, and "I can only build 10 units a month," said Dennis Blake, general manager of Pennsylvania Transformer in Pittsburgh, one of seven U.S. manufacturers. The utility industry keeps some spares on hand.

Tallpine · « **Reply #27 on:** February 08, 2014, 11:25:17 AM »

Quote from: geronimotwo on February 08, 2014, 09:15:13 AM

the power grid will always be vulnerable. firearms are not the biggest threat, anyone with an acetylene torch could shut a high tension line.

Yeah, the towers of the big transmission line a few miles south of here just sit balanced on a single leg, with four big guylines holding them up. Some of the towers sit in a seasonal lake bottom. They have installed pilings around the square of each tower to keep the ice from knocking out a guyline - and a tower.

Cut one of those guylines and the tension of the other three would pull it right over. I don't imagine that a big set of power lines like that coming down would do much to improve the stability of the entire grid

Miles and miles of power line across miles and miles of mostly empty prairie ....

Hawkmoon · « **Reply #28 on:** February 09, 2014, 10:23:11 AM »

Quote from: MillCreek on February 07, 2014, 11:01:04 AM

There was a far more detailed article in the WSJ. The brass was identified as from an AK-47, according to the article.

Well that certainly narrows it down. I'm glad we've got that sorted out.

Move along, now, move along.

RocketMan · « **Reply #29 on:** February 09, 2014, 10:25:02 AM »

One thing will certainly come from Congress' efforts: Much higher electric rates.

MechAg94 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 09, 2014, 01:36:10 PM »

Quote from: MillCreek on February 08, 2014, 11:18:21 AM

In the WSJ article, the point was made that transformers are a custom item and can take months to manufacture.

The country's roughly 2,000 very large transformers are expensive to build, often costing millions of dollars each, and hard to replace. Each is custom made and weighs up to 500,000 pounds, and "I can only build 10 units a month," said Dennis Blake, general manager of Pennsylvania Transformer in Pittsburgh, one of seven U.S. manufacturers. The utility industry keeps some spares on hand.

Yep. Always wondered why that stuff wasn't a bigger target. I guess most violent bozos don't know what they are.

Think about all the power outages caused by snakes and critters crawling into switchgear.

I was watching this Stalone movie about escaping a prison. He is running around with the aim of disrupting things. He is passing banks of electrical MCC's or high voltage breakers yet never thinks to at least trip the breakers as he goes by.

Firethorn · « **Reply #31 on:** February 10, 2014, 05:36:49 AM »

Quote from: MechAg94 on February 09, 2014, 01:36:10 PM

Yep. Always wondered why that stuff wasn't a bigger target. I guess most violent bozos don't know what they are.

Attacking them also generally only causes disruption, not death. We'll just fix the damage. They keep it up, sooner or later they'll screw up and we'll catch them. Terrorists without a body count will be seen as pathetic, not martyrs to the cause.

TechMan · « **Reply #32 on:** February 10, 2014, 06:58:55 AM »

Quote from: RocketMan on February 09, 2014, 10:25:02 AM

One thing will certainly come from Congress' efforts: Much higher electric rates.

Quoted for truth.

makattak · « **Reply #33 on:** February 10, 2014, 08:12:57 AM »

Quote from: Firethorn on February 10, 2014, 05:36:49 AM

Attacking them also generally only causes disruption, not death. We'll just fix the damage. They keep it up, sooner or later they'll screw up and we'll catch them. Terrorists without a body count will be seen as pathetic, not martyrs to the cause.

A massive power outage during one of the coldest parts of the winter WILL cause death, not just disruption.

Firethorn · « **Reply #34 on:** February 10, 2014, 08:50:12 AM »

Quote from: makattak on February 10, 2014, 08:12:57 AM

A massive power outage during one of the coldest parts of the winter WILL cause death, not just disruption.

Yes, but it won't have the immediate effect that terrorists look for. Plus, well, you need to know where to target(there are redundancies), and it means being outside during the coldest parts of winter to effect the plan.

MechAg94 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 10, 2014, 09:42:13 AM »

It really depends on how it is carried out. With some proper planning, a group could figure out the location of all the main high voltage substations/lines feeding an area or just figure out where that equipment is on several large power plants in an area. I bet someone could figure out how to target that infrastructure all around a major city. Or just randomly attack high voltage transformers all over until a shortage occurs or replacements are not available. Either way, it would cause a law enforcement and security disruption even if it didn't cause immediate deaths.

brimic · « **Reply #36 on:** February 10, 2014, 10:03:23 AM »

Quote

and it means being outside during the coldest parts of winter to effect the plan.

Or hottest parts of summer- which is where I think would cause much more disruption.

Tallpine · « **Reply #37 on:** February 10, 2014, 10:45:56 AM »

I have come to the conclusion that there really is virtually no terrorist threat (inside the US) - otherwise, they would have hit all these soft targets long long ago.

TommyGunn · « **Reply #38 on:** February 10, 2014, 12:02:06 PM »

Quote from: Tallpine on February 10, 2014, 10:45:56 AM

I have come to the conclusion that there really is virtually no terrorist threat (inside the US) - otherwise, they would have hit all these soft targets long long ago.

The trouble with that theory is the next day could be the day they release their follow on to 9/11/01.
There are mosques all over America teaching Jihadi philosophy.
When they graduate their students is anyone's guess.

MillCreek · « **Reply #39 on:** February 10, 2014, 12:12:28 PM »

Quote from: TommyGunn on February 10, 2014, 12:02:06 PM

The trouble with that theory is the next day could be the day they release their follow on to 9/11/01.
There are synagogues all over America teaching Jihadi philosophy.
When they graduate their students is anyone's guess.

I am pretty confident in stating that I doubt very much the typical synagogue is teaching Jihadi philosophy.

Balog · « **Reply #40 on:** February 10, 2014, 12:17:36 PM »

Quote from: Tallpine on February 10, 2014, 10:45:56 AM

I have come to the conclusion that there really is virtually no terrorist threat (inside the US) - otherwise, they would have hit all these soft targets long long ago.

Terrorists aren't that smart, well equipped, or familiar with our systems. And when an American gets crazy enough to want to kill random civilians in his own country he's generally also not logical enough to do the non-flashy but worse stuff we talk about here.

Quote from: TommyGunn on February 10, 2014, 12:02:06 PM

The trouble with that theory is the next day could be the day they release their follow on to 9/11/01.
There are synagogues all over America teaching Jihadi philosophy.
When they graduate their students is anyone's guess.

Questions Tommygunn can't answer: what is an Islamic place of worship and instruction called?

My days of not taking your threat assessment seriously are certainly coming to a middle.