9th Circuit Court decision regarding California May Issue

[æg151337]

As far as i can tell, our local sheriffs will hold us off with the excuse of "too many applications" and increase the fees from roughly 300 to 800 bucks so they afford to sign papers.  It will take at least a year or more before i could get any news on my application. Becides, who would want the poor community made up of many blacks and hispanics to be able to defend themselves.

Now, lemme put on the tinfoil for a moment. They must be purposely showing their true Jim Crow nature in order to make the wealthy feel more at ease while they prepare to disarm them soon after. black helicopters.

[Scout26]

Raising the "rate" and slowing down the process to apply, will do poorly in court.   It is a well established principle that a right delayed is a right denied.   Playing such games could end in Constitutional Carry.

[Firethorn]

Do they have some evidence that issuing a permit actually costs $800?  Heck, even the $300 it is now?

[æg151337]

Raising the "rate" and slowing down the process to apply, will do poorly in court.   It is a well established principle that a right delayed is a right denied.   Playing such games could end in Constitutional Carry.

Well, i suppose you're right. However, it makes me cringe to hear that it could "end in constitutional carry". Constitutional carry should be the beginning and the end. I have a feeling the the term constitutional "nut" will soon be a very common term in the media. As if following the constitution makes me some deranged medieval quack.

[æg151337]

Do they have some evidence that issuing a permit actually costs $800?  Heck, even the $300 it is now?

They they present any evidence to push any of the gun laws they have now?

[Ben]

Do they have some evidence that issuing a permit actually costs $800?  Heck, even the $300 it is now?

Of course it doesn't, and some jurisdictions are less expensive and less burdensome, which is why though I think this is a great decision for CA and for other states as well, I'm not kicking up my heels at this time. The "shall issue" is, at this point, basically just saying that if I say "self protection", the CLEO can't immediately say "No!". The rest of it is still based on what county you live in. Some counties are already basically "shall issue" as the rest of you know that term. A hundred or so bucks, the basic class, and your permit in maybe 1-3 months. Other counties require several hundred dollars for the permit, an interview, administrative costs, the class, and sometimes a psych eval. That can easily approach $1000, then you still have to wait a year for a permit that you have to renew every two years.

If we were truly "shall issue" because of this ruling, there would be a maximum (but inexpensive) fee each county could charge. You show up with your paperwork and proof of CCW class, do your fingerprints, get your permit right then or within 30 days. No interviews, psych evals, or other bullcrap. By the time that would all happen, CA citizens could only carry revolvers, because all the manufacturers will have stopped selling semi-autos because of the microstamping law (though I think that law may end in court in the future).

[æg151337]

If we where in a true "shall issue state" there would be no fee period. There shouldn't be a permit to defend ourselves to begin with.

[lee n. field]

Raising the "rate" and slowing down the process to apply, will do poorly in court.   It is a well established principle that a right delayed is a right denied.   Playing such games could end in Constitutional Carry.

Illinois.

[Tallpine]

Some counties are already basically "shall issue" as the rest of you know that term. A hundred or so bucks, the basic class, and your permit in maybe 1-3 months.

Just out of curiosity, does that cover open carry?

For instance, you want to go hiking or horseback riding in the mountains, and carry a sidearm.  Right now that's basically illegal anywhere in the state, right?

[Nick1911]

Raising the "rate" and slowing down the process to apply, will do poorly in court.   It is a well established principle that a right delayed is a right denied.   Playing such games could end in Constitutional Carry.

If this is true, why does the NFA branch get away with 10+ month wait times between accepting a tax payment, and providing the stamp it paid for?

[Ben]

Just out of curiosity, does that cover open carry?

For instance, you want to go hiking or horseback riding in the mountains, and carry a sidearm.  Right now that's basically illegal anywhere in the state, right?

I honestly can't correctly answer that right now. That has become so convoluted, I don't know what's legal and what's not anymore. AFAIK, no open carry, loaded or unloaded anywhere right now (which caused this whole thing with the OP). Before that, you could open carry loaded in National Forests and on BLM land. I'm not sure what the current status of that is at the moment.

[Scout26]

If this is true, why does the NFA branch get away with 10+ month wait times between accepting a tax payment, and providing the stamp it paid for?

Because, (dancing on a lawyer's pinhead here) it's not a right.  If you have to pay a "Tax", then it's not a "right".   Unless it's healthcare then you have to get it or pay a tax/fine.  Not sure how that works.


(Yeah, I know.  IT SHOULD BE.)  But either because of, or in spite Miller it is what it is.   


As I've often pointed out to my liberal friends.  Imagine if voting were as difficult as buying/keeping a firearm or bearing that firearm.   

[freakazoid]

I honestly can't correctly answer that right now. That has become so convoluted, I don't know what's legal and what's not anymore. AFAIK, no open carry, loaded or unloaded anywhere right now (which caused this whole thing with the OP). Before that, you could open carry loaded in National Forests and on BLM land. I'm not sure what the current status of that is at the moment.

How else would you hunt if it wasn't legal?

[Ben]

How else would you hunt if it wasn't legal?

Fish and Game laws are somewhat different than regular gun laws. Many areas have a distinction between actively hunting and carrying for personal protection while hiking, etc. There should be some google-able examples out there of CA DFG wardens ticketing hunters because when the warden approached them to check licenses etc., the hunters did something like lean their loaded gun on their vehicle or placed it in the bed of a truck or something (loaded gun in vehicle).

Like I said, I haven't looked at what the laws are in the last half year or so, since all these changes have been taking place so open carry may still be good to go in most National Forest areas. Though CalGuns has a couple of interesting threads on a National Forest Ranger in Northern CA who was routinely stopping people and checking them for weapons, then ticketing them and confiscating their guns. It got so bad that the county Sheriff there pulled the Fed's reciprocity for enforcing laws in that county

[DustinD]

This Downfall parody about the recent ruling is better than average:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eryaL_mKuM

[Tallpine]

Fish and Game laws are somewhat different than regular gun laws. Many areas have a distinction between actively hunting and carrying for personal protection while hiking, etc. There should be some google-able examples out there of CA DFG wardens ticketing hunters because when the warden approached them to check licenses etc., the hunters did something like lean their loaded gun on their vehicle or placed it in the bed of a truck or something (loaded gun in vehicle).

Like I said, I haven't looked at what the laws are in the last half year or so, since all these changes have been taking place so open carry may still be good to go in most National Forest areas. Though CalGuns has a couple of interesting threads on a National Forest Ranger in Northern CA who was routinely stopping people and checking them for weapons, then ticketing them and confiscating their guns. It got so bad that the county Sheriff there pulled the Fed's reciprocity for enforcing laws in that county

The Forest Circus has gotten totally out of control, and not just in California. 

[charby]

The Forest Circus has gotten totally out of control, and not just in California. 

Its not the Forest Service it is the Dept of Ag and the folks who make the laws.

Do a little forest service policy reading and you will see it is all political and it really came to a head in the Clinton Administration.

[Tallpine]

Its not the Forest Service it is the Dept of Ag and the folks who make the laws.

Do a little forest service policy reading and you will see it is all political and it really came to a head in the Clinton Administration.

All I know is that they have woods ninjas running around now 

[gunsmith]

How else would you hunt if it wasn't legal?

if you have a hunting license with you you're probably good to go.
Eldorado County Sheriff last summer stripped fed forest circus agents of their ability to enforce state laws due to enormous fascism on the fed level.
Simply open carry is probably no longer legal, however you can still conceal carry at your legal campsite as long as you're not otherwise prohibited.

hopefully this will all be changed soon, if San Diego doesn't petition for en banc or SCOTUS it will be sweet.
if they do it will be sweeter, only it will take a couple of yrs.   

[charby]

All I know is that they have woods ninjas running around now 

They have had woods ninjas since the beginning of the forest service.

[Perd Hapley]

They have had woods ninjas since the beginning of the forest service.

But no one knew, because ninja are invisible.

[dogmush]

Woods Ninja?

[Tallpine]

They have had woods ninjas since the beginning of the forest service.

I never heard of any real issues until just a few years ago, and I've spent huge amounts of time living and working in the NF.

But now I'm not sure that I even want to go camping on NF again ...     

There was an incident in MT with a local couple and their kids.  Woman in unmarked pickup and coat covering uniform tries to search and then arrest/kidnap the wife who was sitting in a pickup alongside the road.  Husband comes back from hunting about then.  I would have killed her.  I still haven't heard how the case worked out in the end.

[Matthew Carberry]

If this is true, why does the NFA branch get away with 10+ month wait times between accepting a tax payment, and providing the stamp it paid for?

Hasn't been challenged.

[MillCreek]

Yesterday, the SA County sheriff announced that he would not be appealing the decision and asking for the entire Ninth Circuit (en banc) court to take up the case.  Other parties, such as the state of California, may do so, however.