Getting a second opinion? MA will take you child away from you

[Balog]

And make her a "permanent" ward of the state. I have nothing to say about this case that won't get me banned. Absolutely horrifying, and the fact that the .gov employees responsible will never be held accountable just makes it worse.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/15/justina/vnwzbbNdiodSD7WDTh6xZI/story.html

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/25/judge-gives-permanent-custody-of-justina-pelletier-to-state-agency/

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

And make her a "permanent" ward of the state. I have nothing to say about this case that won't get me banned. Absolutely horrifying, and the fact that the .gov employees responsible will never be held accountable just makes it worse.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/12/15/justina/vnwzbbNdiodSD7WDTh6xZI/story.html

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/25/judge-gives-permanent-custody-of-justina-pelletier-to-state-agency/

lightening strikes twice   i agree
its not like they were using a witchdoctor. tufts is a real medical facility

[Balog]

Yeah, I'm pretty iffy on the state getting involved in parental medical decisions for just this reason. Sure, kid is bleeding out from a compound fracture and the parents just want to pray over it then I can see some form of intervention. But I honestly think fewer kids would suffer and die as a result of letting the handful of whackjobs refuse them medical treatment than will die or get raped in foster homes as a result of letting the state tell you what medical care your kid should have.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

and this is no toddler and she has made clear her wishes.  and is old enough for those wishes to have real merit

[Balog]

Too bad she can't get declared emancipated from the state.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

in a case like this i would support hitting the road. and i do not often say that

[Balog]

in a case like this i would support hitting the road. and i do not often say that

Only problem with that is the kid needs fairly specialized medical care. You'd get snatched when you got her help, then you'd be back in the same spot but with the parents in jail as felons.

 

[Tallpine]

in a case like this i would support hitting the road. and i do not often say that

Pull out your old .45 and hijack a hearse 

[MechAg94]

Yeah, I'm pretty iffy on the state getting involved in parental medical decisions for just this reason. Sure, kid is bleeding out from a compound fracture and the parents just want to pray over it then I can see some form of intervention. But I honestly think fewer kids would suffer and die as a result of letting the handful of whackjobs refuse them medical treatment than will die or get raped in foster homes as a result of letting the state tell you what medical care your kid should have.

I agree. Govt control is a greater evil in the long run.  Too many of those laws are based on emotion and worst case scenarios.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Only problem with that is the kid needs fairly specialized medical care. You'd get snatched when you got her help, then you'd be back in the same spot but with the parents in jail as felons.

 

they need big money lawyers then
in their shoes i think i'd head to another country

[Balog]

they need big money lawyers then
in their shoes i think i'd head to another country

Yep. Actually, what they need is a big PR campaign that gets the governor/Senators from there to intervene. Even with the best lawyers the girl will probably die before the case is litigated.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Yep. Actually, what they need is a big PR campaign that gets the governor/Senators from there to intervene. Even with the best lawyers the girl will probably die before the case is litigated.

this one made me think "what if it was me?"
i think i would have my kid adopted by my japanese kin and get her over there. good luck getting her back then

[Hawkmoon]

This case has been around for awhile and I've read a bit about it before. It's another example of the medical God complex. The doctors at Childrens are convinced that they are right, so no other opinions are to be considered.

The fact that the parents took the kid to Childrens specifically so she could continue to be cared for by the same doctor, and that the hospital then refused to allow that doctor to be involved, is outrageous. The fact that the state took custody without consulting the doctor the kid was taken there to be treated by is even more outrageous.

[Scout26]

Were I the medical malpractice insurance company for Drs. Peters and Bujoreanu, I'd be Obamacaring their insurance rates.

Amazing how they quickly diagnosed her with something that at least one had written a paper on, in only a couple of hours, without doing any tests, and ignoring/discarding the work/diagnosis of a doctor who had referred her to another doctor, who was not allowed to exam the patient referred to him.

If there isn't a landshark taking this on contingency, I'll eat my hat.

[Firethorn]

In reading that article, keeping in my mind that I by default view such articles as slanted to one party, the number of WTFs is insane.

1.  The denial of second opinions and preferred doctors.  Now, sometimes a doctor can be incorrect, even a long time doctor.  That's part of why second opinions are good.  However any doctor should be able to express why he thinks the other doctor is wrong, even consult with each other.
2.  Installing the daughter in what's essentially an insane asylum. 
3.  The state denying a lawyer to the parents?
4.  Going against the teen's wishes
4.  Blocking parents from having daughter treated by existing, fully certified doctors that they have a previous relationship with.

It does indeed sound like Child's has a god complex when it comes to anybody disagreeing with them, and they have the state on speed-dial.

Lastly, I certainly hope the state is picking up every dime of the daughter's medical care right now.  And support for that matter.  The parents need the money for the lawyer's bills. :(

[geronimotwo]

the bizarre part is that they are from out of state.  i would think it would need to be connecticut cps involved.

[T.O.M.]

Start out by saying that I am in no way, shape, or form defending CPS of Boston Children's here...

I have been involved in these kinds of cases for 16 of my 20 years as a lawyer.  Some cases I will never forget, because of the horrors of what I saw and heard, including a few "medical child abuse" cases, which used to be callled Munchausin by proxy.  Horrible things some kids go through.  Having seen these things, I know why CPS exists, and should continue to exist.

I don't understand how the parents here could be denied counsel.   I thought that was universally accepted as a Constitutional right, though I have never researched that issue, as it is a guaranteed right here in Ohio.

Just thankful nothing like this has ever come my way..,

[Scout26]

It appears to me that initial doc at Children's made a bad decision and the they have now doubled and tripled down on the stupid.

[Strings]

Kinda curious what happens if a court at some point finds in favor of the parents

That is my big issue with CPS (at least here in Wisconsin): LOADS of power, no accountability

[T.O.M.]

In my own experiences, if CPS fails to prove their case, kids go home.  Now.  (Burden.., at least in Ohio...is on state to prove case hy clear and convincing evidence. Like in criminal cases, defense has nothing to prove.)

[vaskidmark]

What's worse, CPS cannot rely on the "good faith reliance" onf the medicos statements once the parents register a disagreement.  They can act to maintain the status quo while the differences are worked out, but they cannot just sit on the diffeernce of opinion.  But that seems to be what they are doing.

The "service plan" reads like a dictate from on high, with nothing spelled out about resolving medical disagreements.  In other words, CPS has on its own authority made a definitive medical determination.  Nice if you can do that without a medical license.

At some point this kid needs to come before a judge on a habus corpus petition.  IMHO it will probably end up being the US District Court of Appeals judge.  And wihout expediting that process it seems there is a real danger the kid could suffer some pretty nasty permanent damages.  Getting a few million dollars 10 years from now is really not going to compensate her for that.

stay safe.

[RoadKingLarry]

I've had a little 2nd hand (sister and her kid) experience wth DHS(Dept. of Human Services) in Oklahoma.
They pretty well do whatever the *expletive deleted* they want to do. If you resist they double down on screwing you over.
It even gets difficult to find a lawyer to take the case because in the past DHS has demonstrated a willingness to go after lawyers working against them by alleging child abuse/neglect against the lawyers.

There are numerous cases where DHS has removed children from homes on dubious gronds and placed them in foster care and then the foster parents managed to abuse/rape/kill the child. The next week we'll here a case of DHS not responding to repeated documented reports of child abuse and the end result is dead children.

I have nothing but contempt for the organization in Oklahoma. I doubt is much better elsewhere.

[Strings]

We have sort of a love/hate relationship with DHS here in WI

on the one hand, they're needed, and DO help. On the other, there are so many caseworkers who are burnt out/power tripping/incompetant, that it boggles the mind

Some accountability would be helpful, as would better funding (properly channeled)

[Tallpine]

We had one unfortunate experience and only got clear of it because the lies lodged against us were so ludicrous.

However, from then on until the girls turned 18 we had a "bugout plan" 

[T.O.M.]

Funny, as I read through this again, I find myself chuckling.   You all see CPS as a powerful force to be reckoned with, overreaching and ruthless.  After what I observed yesterday, CPS was a bumbling fool of a lawyer representing an incompetent flower child who didn't want to say anything bad about the mother (who while under the influence of pot, meth, coke, benzodiazapine, and bath salts, tried to cut the bugs out of her children's arms).  Can't go into more detail, but the lawyer barely proved the woman even had children, much less the rest. And the social worker really was obviously trying to avoid hurting the woman's feelings.