Hating on GM

[Tallpine]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/01/victims-relatives-demand-answers-from-gm-over-death-trap-cars/

I just don't get this ...  GM is so terrible because people hang too much crap on their key rings, and then can't handle a minor emergency on the road 

Also, we haven't received a recall notice for our car even yet 

But what makes me more mad is the danged cheap plastic inside door handles that snap right off and cost $500 to fix.  Even if it isn't broken yet, it is most likely to break after an accident when you are trying to get out of a burning or sinking car.  To me, it is a greater safety hazard not to have sure egress and that should be recalled instead. 

Not to mention a whole bunch of other annoyances, but the "faulty" ignition switch is about #800 on my list of peeves 

[Boomhauer]

That can cause the engine to stall, and the driver loses power steering and power brakes.

If you can't "deadstick" the car to a safe stop without boosted steering and brakes then you shouldn't be driving.

[lupinus]

If you can't "deadstick" the car to a safe stop without boosted steering and brakes then you shouldn't be driving.

Dude most people are lucky if they can turn the headlights on

[Boomhauer]

Dude most people are lucky if they can turn the headlights on

Which is why cars these days have automatic headlights.

[bedlamite]

Wait a minute, aren't you supposed to hate the big, evil, profitable corporations?

[charby]

Which is why cars these days have automatic headlights.

Many have gotten away from that. My wife's loaded 2012 Honda Accord is manual headlights.

[Tallpine]

Wait a minute, aren't you supposed to hate the big, evil, profitable corporations?

Oh, I have plenty of hate, just not about this silly thing  

We live on a very rough road, and have never had that problem.

[41magsnub]

If you can't "deadstick" the car to a safe stop without boosted steering and brakes then you shouldn't be driving.

Does it maybe engage the steering wheel lock because it thinks the car is off?  Non-boosted brakes I could deal with.  Not able to steer however...

[Boomhauer]

Does it maybe engage the steering wheel lock because it thinks the car is off?  Non-boosted brakes I could deal with.  Not able to steer however...

As far as I am aware the steering wheel lock only engages in park.

[brimic]

My well of hate for govenrment motors is deep.
I spent 7 hours this weekend changing lower intake manifold gaskets+new upper intake manifold because of their infamous 'dex-cool' engineering abominations. I'm not even done, I cracked 2 injector nozzles while changing orings (they are brittle with age), the dealer won't sell me the 5cent nozzles and spacers (which are listed with part numbers on the service computer diagram) but will sell me new injectors at $100/piece that they don't even have in stock.
eff, them. I hope everyone at GM in the engineering/accounting departments who willfully cut corners dies of some horrible cancer.

[Tallpine]

Does it maybe engage the steering wheel lock because it thinks the car is off?  Non-boosted brakes I could deal with.  Not able to steer however...

As far as I am aware the steering wheel lock only engages in park.

Since we have never had it occur, I don't know.  But if the damn roads ever dry out to where we can actually drive the car again, I will try it out at a reasonable speed.  But I think Boom is right as we had the park interlock fail and couldn't turn the key to lock and remove it.  Had to keep the damn car on a battery charger until we could get it fixed which fortunately was still under warranty.

I used to cut the switch on old stick shift trucks for extra braking 

[Azrael256]

As far as I am aware the steering wheel lock only engages in park.

No Park on a five speed.

Sudden loss of power is dangerous in certain situations.  Maybe not straight and level at 30mph, but you depend on it frequently.  I'll be along to collect pumps, boosters, and airbags from all you macho men who obviously don't need them.

A switch that executes an uncommanded operation in common and predictable circumstances is defective.  GM agreed a decade ago.

[Boomhauer]

No Park on a five speed.

Sudden loss of power is dangerous in certain situations.  Maybe not straight and level at 30mph, but you depend on it frequently.  I'll be along to collect pumps, boosters, and airbags from all you macho men who obviously don't need them.

 

I said I had no problem with getting a vehicle to a safe stop with the sudden loss of boosted brakes and steering...because I've had it happen to me before. I have lost the serpintine belt before and also I used to drive a vehicle whose engine would die randomly due to an unfixable short

It ain't fun but I got it stopped safely every time.

[White Horseradish]

Sudden loss of power is dangerous in certain situations.  Maybe not straight and level at 30mph, but you depend on it frequently.  I'll be along to collect pumps, boosters, and airbags from all you macho men who obviously don't need them.

Go for it. My airbag fault light is on, it's probably not operational anyway. My old Astro van, the power steering pump fell off. I bypassed it with a shorter belt and drove it without power steering for two months.

[SteveS]

I said I had no problem with getting a vehicle to a safe stop with the sudden loss of boosted brakes and steering...because I've had it happen to me before. I have lost the serpintine belt before and also I used to drive a vehicle whose engine would die randomly due to an unfixable short

It ain't fun but I got it stopped safely every time.

I have had it happen, too.  I had a leased Ford Explorer that unexpectedly just shut down 3 times.  The dealer couldn't figure it, but it was near the end of the lease, so it became someone else's problem.  Two of the times, I was on the highway.  Fortunately, I was on a straight, flat section and could easily pull off on to the shoulder.  I guess I can see some situations, such as bad roads or just coming up to a sharp corner, where a sudden loss of power steering could be a more serious problem.

That being said, I could be more sympathetic to GM if this was something that they just became aware of, but they knew about this for a long time.  The decision to not do anything may have been the result of careful consideration, but it certainly gives the appearance of indifference.  Regardless, some people carry a lot of keys and this is nothing new.  If every other manufacturer can make a car that doesn't unexpectedly turn off, why couldn't GM?

[MechAg94]

At speed, unpowered steering isn't as hard as it is at 2 MPH.  The brakes would be more difficult, but if can stand up, you ought to be able to apply enough pressure to slow the vehicle. 

It has been a while, but I have driven a truck with no power steering.  I was thinking I remember a guy 20 years ago who had a cheap no-frills small pickup that had no power steering.  It was his commuter vehicle.

[zxcvbob]

I had the power steering pump pulley fall off of a '94 Cadillac while on vacation.  I found a shorter belt and managed to bypass the PS and get everything else hooked up (water pump and alternator mostly, don't remember about the AC) and drove it like that cross country to get back home.  That was a workout!   It wasn't bad on the highway, but really sucked when I had to drive thru little towns.

[KD5NRH]

Sudden loss of power is dangerous in certain situations.  Maybe not straight and level at 30mph, but you depend on it frequently.

Meh.  I've lost the mainshaft pulley on a Subaru wagon in the middle of a left turn, the whole PS pump on a Nissan, the PS pulley on a Nissan truck, the tensioner on a Saturn in traffic, and the belt on a Sierra in a pasture.  Didn't lose control of any of them.  It makes parallel parking a pain, but if you're going more than 5mph, it's not that hard to turn without the assist.

People used to drive without any power steering at all.  My 94 year old, 135 pound uncle drove himself to the hospital in a pickup without PS while having a heart attack.  His 82 year old sister drove it for a couple years after he died.

[Tallpine]

People used to drive without any power steering at all.  My 94 year old, 135 pound uncle drove himself to the hospital in a pickup without PS while having a heart attack.  His 82 year old sister drove it for a couple years after he died.

We had a 2wd Suburban with manual steering that was a monster to drive at less than about 20mph.  Wore out the box and I had to have it replaced.  I guess the engineers designed them to be power steering only    OTOH, my old 1965 GMC 2-ton wasn't bad at all, and the little sort box stepside of the same year was perfectly fine without power steering.

My point was that there are other more serious problems like the flimsy door handles and the traction control that can just stop you in the middle of the road without warning.  Anybody that can't handle a power steering or power brake failure shouldn't be driving at all.  It's bound to happen sometime during your life that one or the other will have a mechanical failure.

[Azrael256]

My point was that there are other more serious problems like the flimsy door handles and the traction control that can just stop you in the middle of the road without warning.  Anybody that can't handle a power steering or power brake failure shouldn't be driving at all.  It's bound to happen sometime during your life that one or the other will have a mechanical failure.

So the traction control stopping you in the middle of the road without warning is more dangerous than complete power failure stopping you without warning, power brakes, power steering, or airbags?

Vehicles designed without power assist generally don't suffer sudden and unexpected failure of all power control systems.  It's not a has-them-or-doesn't issue, it's a sudden, unexpected failure of control systems.  Not every situation is recoverable, and the failure was both predicted and demonstrated before the crashes.

This "shouldn't be driving" nonsense is based on an assumption that all power loss situations are recoverable, which is simply absurd.  Most power losses? Maybe so.  I've survived a few myself.  All?  Absolutely not.

[Tallpine]

Vehicles designed without power assist generally don't suffer sudden and unexpected failure of all power control systems. 

Unless the engine dies for some reason.

Which believe it or not has been actually known to happen over the past ~100 years of automotive history.

[Nick1911]

I'd like to note, brake boosters are designed to still provide power braking assist for a few pumps of the pedal even without engine vacuum.  This is by design.

I've lost power a couple times while driving.  Once when a timing belt broke on an old Ford Escort.  Another time when the TFI module gave it up on my F250.  And once when the timing chain tensioner on my notably interference engine Eagle Talon let go at speed, royally eating itself in the process.

Generally I don't consider loss of power a crisis event.  Sure, it *could* be.  Say if you're pulling out into speedy traffic.  But loss of power is something that can happen for any number of reasons; I recall it being something I trained for when I was learning to drive.  It's an event that will probably occur at least a few times in an adults life.

Steering wheel lock on a manual typically engages when the key-switch is moved from "run" to "accessory" or "off".

[brimic]

I've lost the mainshaft pulley on a Subaru wagon in the middle of a left turn, the whole PS pump on a Nissan, the PS pulley on a Nissan truck,

Me too- with the Nissan truck. I drove it 75 miles a day for a good stretch of time without power steering until I could obtain and install the replacement parts. Power steering is only for low speed driving, at highway speeds, its not needed.

[Azrael256]

Unless the engine dies for some reason.

Which believe it or not has been actually known to happen over the past ~100 years of automotive history.

Vehicles designed without power assist usually suffer no power assist consequences from engine events, having no power assist to disable.  This is in reference to the pre-power assist vehicles and occasional more modern vehicle without power steering.

Steering wheel lock on a manual typically engages when the key-switch is moved from "run" to "accessory" or "off".

This is precisely the scenario described in the recall.  It is also worth noting that GM has instructed owners to remove the OEM key fob from the keyring along with any other items.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

My vw routan will do same thing if I overload key chain

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk