I love me some karmic justice

[Boomhauer]

And let me just point out that no one here claimed the cop dealt with the situation correctly.

+1. It could go either way, the facts are awful thin.

But you know, wanting to know the whole story before passing judgement and/or kicking the outrage knob to 11 is "marching in lockstep with the JBTs"

[BlueStarLizzard]

Do we have any reports that the officer knew the dog was present before he entered the yard, or that the dog was barking before the cop went in there?

'Cause a guy freaking out and professionaling himself is more consistent with a scenario in which the dog surprised him.

Agreed, although I was responding to a hypothisis that the gun was drawn early.

Furthermore, shooting yourself in the leg usually is a good indication that a finger was on the trigger before clearing leather, which is super bad no no, thus the deserved ridicule. Especially with someone who is trained to deal with suprise and stress because he/she may be needed to actually shoot something. They can't shoot bad guy/bad dog if they're laying on the ground bleeding from a hole in their leg.
It's counter productive to shoot yourself when your trying to save yourself (or someone else)

[Boomhauer]

leg usually is a good indication that a finger was on the trigger before clearing leather,

Usually, but not always. Serpa holster or similar can easily be a case of "not always". Someone who genuinely Tex Grebner's themselves is definitely deserving of ridicule though.

[Perd Hapley]

Agreed, although I was responding to a hypothisis that the gun was drawn early.

Furthermore, shooting yourself in the leg usually is a good indication that a finger was on the trigger before clearing leather, which is super bad no no, thus the deserved ridicule. Especially with someone who is trained to deal with suprise and stress because he/she may be needed to actually shoot something. They can't shoot bad guy/bad dog if they're laying on the ground bleeding from a hole in their leg.
It's counter productive to shoot yourself when your trying to save yourself (or someone else)

No one thinks this guy is Bill Jordan. Heck, I just compared him to this guy.

Edit: Completely changed my comment, to be more nicer.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Yes, let me reiteraite this.

But you know, wanting to know the whole story before passing judgement and/or kicking the outrage knob to 11 is bullshit, always defending police/gov't, marching in step with the jackboots behavior.

Well, the reason it ticks me off is more that I really want my dogs to bark their bloody heads off when strangers come around and I have yet to figure out how to train them to recognise a fancy uniform and a badge.

It kinda would suck to have my dog do exactly what I want and expect her to do, and she ends up getting all holey because Officer Friendly didn't give me a chance to deal with the situation first.

You're right, we really don't know the whole story. However, an officer has a bullet hole in his leg and some people are a little ticked off at how close their family member almost ended up with a bullet hole. I think we can all agree that this was not an optimal outcome, and someobody screwed up.
And since the cop was the one who initiated the rocking of this boat, I'm going with he screwed up.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Most people, much of the time, seem to have a hard time getting beyond a cripplingly binary view of things. To them, anyone who doesn't hate, for instance, this guy; must love him, and want him to marry their daughter, and run for President

Well, I don't like him. It's got nothing to do with the badge. I just don't like it when people do stupid crap and the dog gets blamed for doing it's doggy thing. :)

[Ben]

Without knowing all the facts, I will only comment on the generic scenario of LE going into a situation that may be harmful to them. That being, much like I mentioned in the Bundy thread, why do it? If you believe that your life or well-being is in imminent jeopardy, but no other life is in jeopardy and there is no other emergency, why would you proceed? Why not back off, and in this instance, if it was indeed simply an eviction notice, call out to the homeowner, call animal control, or just wait.

If he had already proceeded into the yard without first seeing the dog and feared for his safety, why pull the gun first? For the last probably ten years, every local, state, and fed uniformed cop that I have dealt with at work has had a pistol on one hip and a taser on the other, plus often a baton and pepper spray. Why not use one of them first?

Just this afternoon, my dog and me were riding around on the farm when a dog I didn't recognize came barreling out of my cousin's orange orchard barking like crazy and chasing us. I had a .45 on my hip, and a "dog stick" (because it's not the first time this has ever happened) on the rack of the ATV. I ended up using neither because the dog calmed down when I said "hi buddy" in a friendly voice and started talking to him. Had that not worked though, I would have gone for the noggin' knocker before I pulled a gun.

Perhaps more facts will come to light here, but I would still question going for the gun first for a single dog, when almost certainly other weapons were at the officer's disposal.

[Perd Hapley]

Well, I don't like him. It's got nothing to do with the badge. I just don't like it when people do stupid crap and the dog gets blamed for doing it's doggy thing. :)

Which may be what happened. Maybe.

I retract my comment, though. What I really should have said is that no one thinks this guy is Bill Jordan. Heck, I just compared him to this guy.

[cordex]

Agreed, although I was responding to a hypothisis that the gun was drawn early.

By early I meant prior to committing to firing, not before he entered the yard.  In other words, saw the dog coming and began to draw the gun hoping he didn't have to use it rather than having already made the decision to kill it no matter what.  Obviously the cop fumbled the draw somehow and NDed into himself but that has no bearing on the righteousness (or not) of drawing down on the dog in this instance.

In any case, my hypothesis was in the context of presenting other possible scenarios outside of the two that Balog sees as the only possible choices.

[Cliffh]

Not that it really has any bearing on this specific case:

  Our dog has scared many people.  She'll run up to a new person with her teeth bared; they think she's attacking.  Thing is, she's actually smiling.  Been doing it since she was less than 6 months old.

Just saying that the cop may have been mistaken in his assumption.

[KD5NRH]

Also given that the police officer was not in anyway harmed by said viscous, attacking dog, his story leaves something to be desired..

How viscous was it?  Maybe it was oozing through the fence, and that's what freaked him out so much.

Obviously the cop fumbled the draw somehow and NDed into himself but that has no bearing on the righteousness (or not) of drawing down on the dog in this instance.

If your profession includes handling firearms, and you screw that up to the point of ventilating yourself, you're not exactly enhancing the appearance of your professional skills or judgment.

[Hawkmoon]

Perhaps more facts will come to light here, but I would still question going for the gun first for a single dog, when almost certainly other weapons were at the officer's disposal.

But that's only because you're not the only person in this yard professional enough to handle this Glock fow-tay ... BANG!

Under stress, people revert to the lowest level of their training. Sadly, the emphasis in too many police academies today is enforced compliance, coupled with "officer safety." The result is often a shoot first mentality.

[Perd Hapley]

The dog is a good dog, and has really started turning his life around. 

(It's a joke, people.)

[Pharmacology]

Also given that the police officer was not in anyway harmed by said viscous, attacking dog, his story leaves something to be desired..

This.
Fistful is both right and wrong, but heseems to be missing is that little step in logic.  (I normally agree with you a lot, Fisty. You're just turbo wrong on this one.)
He's right.  We *don't* know what happened. 
We can apply logic, though.

There are two arguments:   The dog attacked and the officer was justified.  The dog did not attack and the cop was being an ahole.

If the dog did attack,  why are his injuries limited to a single GSW? Officer Dumplings in the video does not look to be in the kind of shape required for outrunning an attacking dog while shot in the leg.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I think your why was answered in the article and at least once since

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[cassandra and sara's daddy]

And someones definition of karma is very interesting/western

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[cordex]

There are two arguments:   The dog attacked and the officer was justified.  The dog did not attack and the cop was being an *expletive deleted*.

If the dog did attack,  why are his injuries limited to a single GSW? Officer Dumplings in the video does not look to be in the kind of shape required for outrunning an attacking dog while shot in the leg.

So your position is that the only time it is lawful or ethical to draw your weapon on an aggressive animal is after it has bitten you?

I think the majority on APS has justified fatal shootings of humans based on a lower standard.  For that matter, we have members who have shot dogs for less.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I like pits . Am babysitting a pair of sisters.  One of the things I like is the way they respond to a stranger and the way they look doing it. If one appears ticked off it can be an attention getter. And both of these do not like uniforms.

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[Balog]

Without knowing all the facts, I will only comment on the generic scenario of LE going into a situation that may be harmful to them. That being, much like I mentioned in the Bundy thread, why do it? If you believe that your life or well-being is in imminent jeopardy, but no other life is in jeopardy and there is no other emergency, why would you proceed? Why not back off, and in this instance, if it was indeed simply an eviction notice, call out to the homeowner, call animal control, or just wait.

If he had already proceeded into the yard without first seeing the dog and feared for his safety, why pull the gun first? For the last probably ten years, every local, state, and fed uniformed cop that I have dealt with at work has had a pistol on one hip and a taser on the other, plus often a baton and pepper spray. Why not use one of them first?

Just this afternoon, my dog and me were riding around on the farm when a dog I didn't recognize came barreling out of my cousin's orange orchard barking like crazy and chasing us. I had a .45 on my hip, and a "dog stick" (because it's not the first time this has ever happened) on the rack of the ATV. I ended up using neither because the dog calmed down when I said "hi buddy" in a friendly voice and started talking to him. Had that not worked though, I would have gone for the noggin' knocker before I pulled a gun.

Perhaps more facts will come to light here, but I would still question going for the gun first for a single dog, when almost certainly other weapons were at the officer's disposal.

This was a ninja dog that undoubtedly got the drop on him and had a switchblade, so he had no choice. See see see, we don't have all the facts!!!

And fisty, the last time someone accused me of having binary thought processes it was a (literally) fedora wearing atheist who was telling me how stupid I am that I can't see why using the law to force Christians to participate in gay weddings was great but using the same law to make a gay person participate in a WBC rally wasn't. That's about the level you're working on. Or the liberals who kept insisting that  it's racist to think it was religiously motivated when a Muslim shot up an Army base while yelling aloha snackbar. Just some workplace violence here folks, and if you think different you're just a hatey hatemonger.

[Balog]

By early I meant prior to committing to firing, not before he entered the yard.  In other words, saw the dog coming and began to draw the gun hoping he didn't have to use it rather than having already made the decision to kill it no matter what.  Obviously the cop fumbled the draw somehow and NDed into himself but that has no bearing on the righteousness (or not) of drawing down on the dog in this instance.

In any case, my hypothesis was in the context of presenting other possible scenarios outside of the two that Balog sees as the only possible choices.

If you see a dog running at you (even a super ninja dog like this one apparently is) and your brain shuts down to the extent that all you can think to do is try to draw down on it then you're far to cowardly and incompetent to be a cop.

Again, truly amazing how far the kneejerk defenders will go to what if possibilities where rasta-cop 2.0 is a brave and noble defender of the populace.

[cordex]

If you see a dog running at you (even a super ninja dog like this one apparently is) and your brain shuts down to the extent that all you can think to do is try to draw down on it then you're far to cowardly and incompetent to be a cop.

At what point - if ever - should anyone (cop or not) draw down on an aggressive dog?  What I am getting from you and pharma is that you shouldn't clear leather until you've been gnawed on for a bit.  Is that about right?

Again, truly amazing how far the kneejerk defenders will go to what if possibilities where rasta-cop 2.0 is a brave and noble defender of the populace.

How far is it exactly that people you see as "kneejerk defenders" are going?  Presenting more than two possible scenarios?  Admitting that based on the one scanty news article we have it could go either way?  Pointing out that people on this very forum have killed dogs for less and that the only reason you want to crucify this guy is because he is a cop?  Yeah, he screwed up hard with shooting himself, and maybe be is a total JBT who likes killing puppies and raping kittens, but you are so biased by your passionate hatred of cops that you interpret everything only in the worst possible light for anyone with a badge. But I am the one jerking my knee. Right. Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

[Perd Hapley]

If you see a dog running at you (even a super ninja dog like this one apparently is) and your brain shuts down to the extent that all you can think to do is try to draw down on it then you're far to cowardly and incompetent to be a cop.

Again, truly amazing how far the kneejerk defenders will go to what if possibilities where rasta-cop 2.0 is a brave and noble defender of the populace.

Knee-jerk?   

And again with the lengths business. 

Alright, fine. It doesn't matter that you weren't there, and you don't know what happened. You somehow know exactly what happened, 'cause that's how you want it to be. I guess it also stands to reason that, through the power of wishy-thinking, you must have been there. You've achieved teleportation! !!!

[BlueStarLizzard]

Is anyone else laughing at what this thread has turned into?

"YOU'RE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED!!"
"No! YOU'RE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED!"
"NO! YOU ARE!"
"YOU ARE!"

It's like watching little boys argue over who has cooties.

[TommyGunn]

Someone has cooties?!?!?!?!?!?!!??!?!?!

[Ben]

Is anyone else laughing at what this thread has turned into?

Not exactly laughing.