ATF accidentally allowing newly manufactured machineguns?

[Balog]

Everyone needs to understand that this needs to be dealt with through the lens of the Administrative Procedures Act (APA). So far, I haven't found anyone who understands this. It will not be quick and all the i's need to be dotted and t's crossed. If an action is brought prematurely and an adverse decision results,....well, we don't need to go there. There may be a few people that have additional remedies, including if they actually made a firearm in reliance on the approved form. This may open up a separate venue of forfeiture to deal with these issues; which, quite honestly, I like more than a straight APA claim. The problem is that there are very few firearms attorneys across the US that have any experience with the NFA, let alone understand what is required under the APA and in this matter.


Joshua Prince, Esq.
Firearms Industry Consulting Group
a Division of Prince Law Offices, P.C.
646 Lenape Rd
Bechtelsville, PA 19505
888-313-0416

[Balog]

Still time to efile a Form 1 for your trust, get turned down, and gain standing for the upcoming suits.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2014/09/what-to-do-if-the-atf-rejects.html

[Balog]

At least 2 people received stamps and approved form 1's and made legal, approved post 86 non-sample machine guns before BATFEIEIO changed its mind. Very interesting times we live in.

[AmbulanceDriver]

At least 2 people received stamps and approved form 1's and made legal, approved post 86 non-sample machine guns before BATFEIEIO changed its mind. Very interesting times we live in.

Oh, this is going to get really interesting now.......

[freakazoid]

How long did it take for them to get their stamps approved? Aren't they still taking something like 6+ months?

[Scout26]

I don't know that it would be a huge deal to them.

1. The anti's and MSM have for a LONG time been deliberately confusing the non-gun public that semi-automatic military styled rifles are fully-automatic already. Making a stink now runs the risk of exposing the falsehoods. "Wait... whut? Thems M4's yous always on da news bitch'n 'bout n the schools gettin shot up, they's aren't automatics?"

2. Because of the confusion, sensationalism, and fear-mongering, the anti and fence-sitting public already thinks full autos are "legal" and "common".

3. Despite the floodgates being opened on NFA due to the shrinking dollar vs. the $200 tax, and the Internet getting people educated on the process, it's still a tiny fraction of the total gun purchases/transfers in America each year. And even with the education and more dealers than ever willing to walk you through the process, the extra $200 the forms, making a trust or CLEO sign-off, and the wait is still a huge barrier to entry to all but the most fervent gun-nuts.  Take away the tax, and I bet 90%+ of the "go to Cablea's once a year" type of gun buyer would still never bother.

IMO, those who have willfully tried to mess with the NFA on the Federal level, namely Hughes with (what he thought would be) the poison-pill amendment to the '86 FOPA, and now Obama/Holder with 41p. Which I personally believe was the one quick and easy, or so they thought, way they could claim they did some "gun control by executive order" and keep the press off Obama's back about it.

Either way, the anti-gun activity targeted at the NFA, what little there is, has always kind of been a backhanded swipe at a small consolation prize. I don't think NFA has ever been mainstream enough to make it a major gun control target. We have to step outside our worldview from the Internet gun boards and realize that it's just not on the radar for the majority of pro or anti-RKBA people.

Yes the $200 tax isn't that big of a deal anymore.  But real barrier to entry is the $20,000 and up pricetags on most machine guns.   If 922(o) the Hughes amendment went away, then AR-15 manufacturer's now can put in "da switch", charge a few extra bucks, and Gun shops would have a new market open to them.  Team up with a lawyer to do the Trust paperwork and for ~$500 ($200 tax plus $300 in legal fees) more then a regular AR you can buy a machine gun.  How many people would jump at that chance  "Buy 'em while their legal folks !!!"  Plus that would be a great Obama Legacy - The president that made machine guns legal again !!!


I have hopeful, happy dreams. 

[MicroBalrog]

The main deal seems to be the wait and the loathsome bureaucracy.

...then again it's harder to get an air gun where I live.

[Fly320s]

The main deal seems to be the wait and the loathsome bureaucracy.

...then again it's harder to get an air gun where I live.

Mainly the wait. The paperwork and bureaucracy is fairly mild.

[drewtam]

At least 2 people received stamps and approved form 1's and made legal, approved post 86 non-sample machine guns before BATFEIEIO changed its mind. Very interesting times we live in.

What I read is that 1 of those was sent a rejection, then BATFEIEIO (I like that) screwed up and sent an approval afterwards, then realized the mistake and called and demanded that the approval be returned for destruction as soon as it shows up in the mail.

[Balog]

What I read is that 1 of those was sent a rejection, then BATFEIEIO (I like that) screwed up and sent an approval afterwards, then realized the mistake and called and demanded that the approval be returned for destruction as soon as it shows up in the mail.

At least a hundred folks were approved, then they started denying after that.

[AJ Dual]

Mainly the wait. The paperwork and bureaucracy is fairly mild.

And I'll admit even that is dropping. I just got a correction letter today on a Form 1 to SBR my Wiselite Arms Sterling Sporter back to something that appears like an original Sterling. 

Apparently my "S's" and my "5's" in my toddler scrawl are a little too close for comfort. I can't blame the NFA examiners, I had to go check the firearm myself to be sure. 

I sent in the Form 1 on June 26th.

Generally your approved stamp is coming in 2-3 weeks after the corrections are returned.  Considering my first F1 to turn my Draco AK pistol into a SBR took 14 months from  the beginning of April 2012, to the end of May 2013, that's a big change.

My cynical pessimist side just thinks they're "clearing the decks" for rule 41p next spring. My optimistic side wonders if the ATF would hire all that staff just to fire them  in a year. (the assistants might be temps, but the new examiners are full time fed.gov employees...)

[Fly320s]

Maybe the ATFEIO is getting caught up.  My suppressor took 10 months with my Trust.