Author Topic: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs  (Read 9829 times)

birdman

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The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« on: June 01, 2014, 10:13:10 AM »
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bergdahl-release-arrangement-could-threaten-the-safety-of-americans-republicans-say/2014/05/31/35e47a2a-e8ff-11e3-afc6-a1dd9407abcf_print.html

So we not only negotiated with terrorists, we released HVTs to do so.

In other words:
Taliban, want your guys back at a 5:1 ratio?  Grab US troops
Or
The US does negotiate with terrorists
Or
WTF?!?!

Boomhauer

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2014, 11:05:24 AM »
From what I'm hearing, he was captured after he left his post and went into the local village, and he walked out with sensitive information on his person.

Something smells...





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Sergeant Bob

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2014, 11:20:16 AM »
I'm happynot so sure I'm happy the Sgt is now free. As a bonus, we can now kill the "detainees" (along with their families and friends) in a drone strike.


ETA:not so sure I'm happy he's free.....
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 11:00:52 AM by Sergeant Bob »
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
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mtnbkr

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2014, 11:42:00 AM »
As a bonus, we can now kill the "detainees" (along with their families and friends) in a drone strike.

Nothing like collateral damage to win hearts and minds! I can't see this creating more jihadis, no sir, not at all.

Chris

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2014, 11:44:39 AM »
I recall that we have been doing spy swaps for decades, and sometimes both sides would seize additional spies to have something to trade.
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2014, 11:46:14 AM »
Nothing like collateral damage to win hearts and minds! I can't see this creating more jihadis, no sir, not at all.

Chris

Yeah, I know. Why aren't the lib's all apoplectic (I know, silly question) about Barry's use of drones as they were with Bush?
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

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birdman

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2014, 12:07:43 PM »
From what I'm hearing, he was captured after he left his post and went into the local village, and he walked out with sensitive information on his person.

Something smells...


Doesn't matter how much of an idiot he is.  The result in this case is the same.
I recall that we have been doing spy swaps for decades, and sometimes both sides would seize additional spies to have something to trade.

Slight difference between spies captured and then a negotiated release, POW exchange, and this.
The issue isn't entirely there was a negotiation, my issue is it was done extra-legally.
There is a specific law on the books regarding notification, Obama's signing statement was basically "I don't care" and he acted accordingly.

What is the purpose of law when it doesn't bind anyone.  Obama said it was unconstitutional, but rather than challenge it in a court, he acted as if it didn't exist.

Not only that, it was a unilateral change in policy...regardless of prior history of spy/prisoner exchanges, the Taliban are classified as terrorists.  We don't negotiate with terrorists, but now we do.

This stinks, and puts a target on troops.

wmenorr67

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2014, 12:33:38 PM »
What stinks is that he was held for 5 years without being killed.  Not the traditional MO of the guys we are fighting.  Something does smell and the truth will never come out.
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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2014, 02:21:10 PM »
People were warning that if Israel negotiated for Shalit then more troops would be kidnapped.

And yet this failed to materialize.
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dogmush

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2014, 02:36:39 PM »
There is some evidence coming from the guys in his unit that he deserted specifically looking for the Taliban.  Which could explain his lifespan.

He walked out of a defensive perimeter, at night, without his armor or weapon.  Then he ran into some Afghans and asked them where he could find the Taliban.



MillCreek

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2014, 02:56:38 PM »
As I am sure the legal eagles would take pains to point out; as far as I know, we did not directly negotiate with the Taliban.  The Emir of Qatar did, albeit on our behalf. 
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birdman

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2014, 03:54:17 PM »
As I am sure the legal eagles would take pains to point out; as far as I know, we did not directly negotiate with the Taliban.  The Emir of Qatar did, albeit on our behalf. 

We released HVTs in exchange for a guy.  Regardless of who brokered the deal, they demanded something, we released people.
5 HVTs for one guy?  Did we try a capture/rescue? 

But the point remains, the law says congress had to be informed, the president didn't.

Boomhauer

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2014, 04:33:32 PM »
There is some evidence coming from the guys in his unit that he deserted specifically looking for the Taliban.  Which could explain his lifespan.

He walked out of a defensive perimeter, at night, without his armor or weapon.  Then he ran into some Afghans and asked them where he could find the Taliban.




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KD5NRH

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2014, 04:47:13 PM »
Nothing like collateral damage to win hearts and minds! I can't see this creating more jihadis, no sir, not at all.

It's just a question of how to create enough collateral damage that there won't be any left to become jihadis.

Scout26

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2014, 07:07:53 PM »
Seen a couple of things that have made my BS meter twich:

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/06/143442-freed-american-hostages-father-deletes-a-very-disturbing-tweet/

And a couple stories coming out from people in his unit (I haven't seen confirmed proof) that he just walked out one night.  He been acting goofy prior to leaving, and wasn't "part" of the unit but a last minute fill-in (non-airborne qualified) to make sure there's a body in the slot.

Once I find a credible one, I'll post it.

This is what I keep seeing:

Quote
"Forwarded from Jeff Howard. "We were at OP Mest, Paktika Province, Afghanistan. It was a small outpost where B Co 1-501st INF (Airbone) ran operations out of, just an Infantry platoon and ANA counterparts there. The place was an Afghan graveyard. Bergdahl had been acting a little strange, telling people he wanted to "walk the earth" and kept a little journal talking about how he was meant for better things. No one thought anything about it. He was a little “out there”. Next morning he's gone. We search everywhere, and can't find him. He left his weapon, his kit, and other sensitive items. He only took some water, a compass and a knife. We find some afghan kids shortly after who saw an american walking north asking about where the taliban are. We get hits on our voice intercepter that Taliban has him, and we were close. We come to realize the kid deserted his post, snuck out of camp and sought out Taliban… to join them. We were in a defensive position at OP Mest, where your focus is to keep people out. He knew where the blind spots were to slip out and that's what he did. It was supposed to be a 4-day mission but turned into several months of active searching. Everyone was spun up to find this guy. News outlets all over the country were putting out false information. It was hard to see, especially when we knew the truth about what happened and we lost good men trying to find him. PFC Matthew Michael Martinek, Staff Sgt. Kurt Robert Curtiss, SSG Clayton Bowen, PFC Morris Walker, SSG Michael Murphrey, 2LT Darryn Andrews, were all KIA from our unit who died looking for Bergdahl. Many others from various units were wounded or killed while actively looking for Bergdahl. Fighting Increased. IEDs and enemy ambushes increased. The Taliban knew that we were looking for him in high numbers and our movements were predictable. Because of Bergdahl, more men were out in danger, and more attacks on friendly camps and positions were conducted while we were out looking for him. His actions impacted the region more than anyone wants to admit. There is also no way to know what he told the Taliban: Our movements, locations, tactics, weak points on vehicles and other things for the enemy to exploit are just a few possibilities. The Government knows full well that he deserted. It looks bad and is a good propaganda piece for the Taliban. They refuse to acknowledge it. Hell they even promoted him to Sergeant which makes me sick. I feel for his family who only want their son/brother back. They don’t know the truth, or refuse to acknowledge it as well. What he did affected his family and his whole town back home, who don’t know the truth. Either way what matters is that good men died because of him. He has been lying on all those Taliban videos about everything since his “capture”. If he ever returns, he should be tried under the UCMJ for being a deserter and judged for what he did. Bergdahl is not a hero, he is not a soldier or an Infantryman. He failed his brothers. Now, sons and daughters are growing up without their fathers who died for him and he will have to face that truth someday."

All the names listed as KIA were KIA'd as members of 1/501 PIR after 18 Aug 2009.   I'm still trying to find out when 1/501PIR was due to rotate home, but IIRC, they got extended to try to find him.


« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 07:30:03 PM by scout26 »
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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2014, 08:29:27 PM »
I pretty much grew up with POW-MIA flags being flown(heck,the Stars & Stripes was still being regularly being flown when I grew up-I digress).

Not to put too fine a point on it but who the heck is this guy that he was more important than the hundreds that were MIA in S.E.Asia?
I remember a few seemingly half hearted mentions of a push for their return but they seemed to die quickly.IIRC,the repatriation of bones and the (limited) searches around known battlefields & crash sites didn't happen until the late eighties.

A different age?A less popular war?The internet?

I don't know,in my mind I can picture a grizzled 70 year old man,long broken,living his last days in a forgotten jail guarded by a group of equally ancient jailers.
I'd rather see the old man come home than a kid who purposely walked off base(from what I've read on the matter).
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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2014, 09:35:52 PM »
Here are the bio's of the five we traded him for:

1- Mullah Mohammad Fazl (Taliban army chief of staff): Fazl is “wanted by the UN for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiites.” Fazl “was associated with terrorist groups currently opposing U.S. and Coalition forces including al Qaeda, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), and an Anti-Coalition Militia group known as Harakat-i-Inqilab-i-Islami.” In addition to being one of the Taliban’s most experienced military commanders, Fazl worked closely with a top al Qaeda commander named Abdul Hadi al Iraqi, who headed al Qaeda’s main fighting unit in Afghanistan prior to 9/11 and is currently detained at Guantanamo.

2- Mullah Norullah Noori (senior Taliban military commander): Like Fazl, Noori is “wanted by the United Nations (UN) for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of *expletive deleted*it Muslims.” Beginning in the mid-1990s, Noori “fought alongside al Qaeda as a Taliban military general, against the Northern alliance.” He continued to work closely with al Qaeda in the years that followed.

3- Abdul Haq Wasiq (Taliban deputy minister of intelligence): Wasiq arranged for al Qaeda members to provide crucial intelligence training prior to 9/11. The training was headed by Hamza Zubayr, an al Qaeda instructor who was killed during the same September 2002 raid that netted Ramzi Binalshibh, the point man for the 9/11 operation. Wasiq “was central to the Taliban's efforts to form alliances with other Islamic fundamentalist groups to fight alongside the Taliban against U.S. and Coalition forces after the 11 September 2001 attacks,” according to a leaked JTF-GTMO threat assessment.

4- Khairullah Khairkhwa (Taliban governor of the Herat province and former interior minister): Khairkhwa was the governor of Afghanistan’s westernmost province prior to 9/11. In that capacity, he executed sensitive missions for Mullah Omar, including helping to broker a secret deal with the Iranians. For much of the pre-9/11 period, Iran and the Taliban were bitter foes. But a Taliban delegation that included Kharikhwa helped secure Iran’s support for the Taliban’s efforts against the American-led coalition in late 2001. JTF-GTMO found that Khairkhwa was likely a major drug trafficker and deeply in bed with al Qaeda. He allegedly oversaw one of Osama bin Laden’s training facilities in Herat.

5- Mohammed Nabi (senior Taliban figure and security official): Nabi “was a senior Taliban official who served in multiple leadership roles.” Nabi “had strong operational ties to Anti-Coalition Militia (ACM) groups including al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Haqqani Network, and the Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), some of whom remain active in ACM activities.” Intelligence cited in the JTF-GTMO files indicates that Nabi held weekly meetings with al Qaeda operatives to coordinate attacks against U.S.-led forces.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/five-most-dangerous-taliban-commanders-us-custody-released-pow-exchange_794017.html


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Bigjake

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2014, 09:58:28 PM »
Leme get this straight...

We trade 5 HVTs for 1 (supposed) deserter,  but we don't lift a finger to get our Marine (Actual combat vet) back from the F***ing Mexicans??


That's *expletive deleted*ed up.

BobR

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2014, 10:11:02 PM »
Leme get this straight...

We trade 5 HVTs for 1 (supposed) deserter,  but we don't lift a finger to get our Marine (Actual combat vet) back from the F***ing Mexicans??


That's *expletive deleted*ed up.

We don't have anybody in the country that the Mexican government wants back. In fact they keep sending them over!!  ;/


bob

wmenorr67

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2014, 10:53:40 PM »
More of the story is that the HVT's are going to be held in Qatar for awhile.  How long is awhile and where they go from there is anyone's guess.
 
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birdman

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2014, 11:14:42 PM »
More of the story is that the HVT's are going to be held in Qatar for awhile.  How long is awhile and where they go from there is anyone's guess.
 

I thought it was a year.

Balog

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2014, 11:29:55 PM »
He deserted his post. He's a traitor, and deserves a firing squad not a trade of HVT's. Piece of *expletive deleted*it traitorous garbage.
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Boomhauer

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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2014, 12:45:17 AM »
He deserted his post. He's a traitor, and deserves a firing squad not a trade of HVT's. Piece of *expletive deleted* traitorous garbage.

Yep. The more and more I'm reading about it, the more and more it's looking like he's a deserter/traitor, much like the whackos that go over to the North Koreans.

Yet he is getting a hero's welcome.
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Re:
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2014, 12:47:48 AM »
The truth doesn't interest Americans. They want a movie plot
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Re: The US DOES negotiate / troops watch your backs
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2014, 09:07:07 AM »
blinders......i don't know if this guy is good or bad, but it disgusts me when an event like this turns political engines.
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