Author Topic: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!  (Read 94392 times)

roo_ster

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Re: Re: Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #400 on: July 03, 2014, 10:43:37 PM »
1st question:
I never said I agreed or disagreed with close relatives reproducing. I gave my opinion on why society accepts that it shouldn't be down.

2nd question:
I don't see a greater sexual health risk between a monogamous homosexual relationship vs monogamous heterosexual relationship. Greater health sexual health risks occur when you start to have multiple partners, regardless of sexual orientation.

See my response to BSL.  

You make assumptions of monogamy that are less viable with the male homosexual population, do not account for the greater risk of infection given their activities, and do not account for the greater prevalence of disease in the homosexual male population.

Other than that, your post was solid.
Regards,

roo_ster

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #401 on: July 03, 2014, 11:52:05 PM »
My father is my father because of his actions, not biology, and there were plenty of legal option that could have been taken to make him such.
A husband is a husband due to his actions, not the gender of his partner.
A wife is a wife due to her actions, not the gender of her partner.

And I agree, government shouldn't be involved at all. You don't need government to validate your marriage anymore than anyone elses, but since it does, accept that there is a large portion of the population that thinks "marriage" is something the LBGT can and should have, because they don't define that word or instatution the same way you do.

Move beyond your personal feelings on the subject and be the bigger man. Accept that the fact that others beliving diffrently does not invalidate your opinion and accept the validity that they have the right to redefine the word "marriage" if they want to.
It's no skin off your back if they do. It doesn't diminish your marriage. If you think it does, well, you might want to rethink your own marriage.

and you never addressed the fact that once "Christian" meant Catholic and nothing else.


Move beyond my personal feelings? This is ironical, coming from the one who just admitted her emotions were getting to her. If you actually read what I said about fathers, I agreed with you that fatherhood comes in different forms.* Marriage also comes in different forms. Neither can be twisted beyond a certain point, without becoming something else, that should called by a different name. Now please stress yourself no further by imagining that I can't think about fatherhood without reference to you. I happen to have my own fathers to think of.

In the larger debate, in or outside APS, it's obvious which side relies more on emotional appeal, and feels befo' reals.

Further, I've never claimed that same-sex marriage diminishes my marriage. Please stop making me responsible for every argument anyone else has ever used.


*I also did not claim that non-biological fathers can't become legal parents, guardians, etc. I can see how you got that idea, but that's not what I said. The real point is that even the fuzziest concept has limits that make it what it is.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 12:05:41 AM by fistful »
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #402 on: July 03, 2014, 11:59:37 PM »
Hell, you would be Catholic if not for Luther's challenging what it meant to be a Christian. Today, it's accepted to be Christian but not Catholic, but in the past, you'd have been ostrasized, excumincated and possible stoned or burned to death because of a acceped word and a definetion that had ment a specific thing throughout a culture and their history.


Luther corrected the church of Rome, not by making up his own, new doctrines; but by going back to the scripture, the creeds, and the Church fathers.

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #403 on: July 04, 2014, 12:01:34 AM »

 Please stop making me responsible for every argument anyone else has ever used.

Isn't that your traditional role on this board?The scapegoat? =)
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #404 on: July 04, 2014, 12:06:04 AM »
Isn't that your traditional role on this board?The scapegoat? =)


True. Until I redefine scapegoatiness.
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charby

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #405 on: July 04, 2014, 12:10:44 AM »

True. Until I redefine scapegoatiness.

Heretic!
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #406 on: July 04, 2014, 12:12:35 AM »
Gods Kingdom is not going to come to pass nor be be promoted by any legislation (or lack thereof) IMHO. I completely reject the notion that God calls believers to be cultural warriors by way of the legislative process.

Believers and unbelievers alike should vote for men and women who cherish life, promote liberty (defined as individual freedom from government interference) and protect private property.

Um, sort of, kind of, not really.

I don't know whether it makes us "culture warriors," but God does call on us to look after the orphan, the widow, etc. This may mean legal/political activism for the rights of those who can't fight for themselves (banning non-life-threatening abortions, for example). He further calls on us to "expose" the "works of darkness," which could be political, as well.

Even where God does not call the believer into politics, our republic does call upon us to have a say in her government, as she does non-believers.
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Firethorn

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #407 on: July 04, 2014, 12:54:54 AM »
First thing isn't directly harmful anymore than anything else the .gov wastes money on. Last two are just proof that the slippery slope is a valid argument. Registration, in and of itself, does no direct harm.

1.  It turned into massive impositions on gun owners
2.  Only proves the slippery slope case for gun registration, not religious freedom.
3.  You have yet to prove that gay marriage affects YOU even as much as a firearm registration system would.

Quote
Wasn't intended as a counter argument, it was intended to express my contempt for you. And feel free to tell the small businesses that have been sued into bankruptcy that there's no danger of negative consequences.

Real high road.  I object to the small businesses being sued into bankruptcy over customer selection. 

My reason?I wouldn't want my child to(potentially) suffer the stigma that goes with being gay.I wouldn't want my child to be associated with the filthy loud disgusting trash that shows up at rallys supporting gay rights.

1.  Stigma is declining, and declining rapidly.  If they're truly homosexual, suffering the stigma today is a lesser harm than denying what they are.
2.  Going to rallies has always been optional.
3.  Wishing for grandkids is still a valid reason; though sperm donation/IV fertilization is always possible.

Not intending to muddle your point but quoting any on-line poll as fact seems to be informationally dangerous.(words fail me sometimes,I can't help it)

I happen to agree, so I tracked down the poll. - "This Washington Post-ABC News poll was conducted by telephone Feb. 27-Mar. 2, 2014, among a random national sample of 1,002 adults, including landline and cell phone-only respondents.  The margin of sampling error for overall results is 3.5 percentage points.  Sampling, data collection and tabulation by Abt-SRBI of New York"

The gay stuff starts on page 14.  Roughly speaking, the population's opinion on the subject has completely flipped in the last 10 years.  Even then, gay marriage bans have only really passed in conservative areas with the phenomenon that people who OPPOSE gay marriage tend to use it as a voting issue and while gay people probably also get out and vote, their friends are less likely to.



Scout26

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #408 on: July 04, 2014, 04:41:15 AM »
I'm impressed that this thread has:

A) Lasted this long; and,

B) Remained, for the most part on topic and effectively debated, with both (all?) arguing the subject and not the person.

Bravo Zulu and carry on.
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fifth_column

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Re: Re: Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #409 on: July 04, 2014, 11:26:38 AM »
I'm impressed that this thread has:

A) Lasted this long; and,

B) Remained, for the most part on topic and effectively debated, with both (all?) arguing the subject and not the person.

Bravo Zulu and carry on.
Oh yeah? Well, your pants are too long!
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charby

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Re: Re: Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #410 on: July 04, 2014, 02:41:18 PM »
Oh yeah? Well, your pants are too long!

Most definitely!
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White Horseradish

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Re:
« Reply #411 on: July 04, 2014, 04:08:35 PM »
Quote from: roo_ster link
========

To sum up, if one looks at probabilities of transmission and opportunities for transmission of even just one sexually transmitted disease, the health damage caused by homosexual sex is much more than that of heterosexual sex.  Even if one assumes the lowest number of partners reported.

This assumes that pregnancy is not considered "damage," in the way an incurable and fatal sexually transmitted disease would be, but an expected and natural occurrence when engaging in heterosexual relations.




The studies mention anal sex, not homosexual sex. They are not one and the same. Straight people have that kind of sex too, and homosexual people aren't limited to it. I would bet it's rather rare among homosexual women.


And if promiscuity is a problem, wouldn't gay marriage be just the thing to fix that?
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White Horseradish

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Re:
« Reply #412 on: July 04, 2014, 04:08:42 PM »
Quote from: roo_ster link
========

To sum up, if one looks at probabilities of transmission and opportunities for transmission of even just one sexually transmitted disease, the health damage caused by homosexual sex is much more than that of heterosexual sex.  Even if one assumes the lowest number of partners reported.

This assumes that pregnancy is not considered "damage," in the way an incurable and fatal sexually transmitted disease would be, but an expected and natural occurrence when engaging in heterosexual relations.




The studies mention anal sex, not homosexual sex. They are not one and the same. Straight people have that kind of sex too, and homosexual people aren't limited to it. I would bet it's rather rare among homosexual women.


And if promiscuity is a problem, wouldn't gay marriage be just the thing to fix that?
Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

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Re:
« Reply #413 on: July 04, 2014, 05:37:32 PM »
And if promiscuity is a problem, wouldn't gay marriage be just the thing to fix that?

It could be, but gay marriages trend more towards the "open" variety, so no:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us/29sfmetro.html?_r=2&

I've read several more recent articles along that vein (all written by liberal or otherwise pro-gay authors). I was trying to find one I'd read recently on some liberal site crowing about how same-sex marriage would destroy traditional marriage (and how that was a good thing), and one of the reasons was basically posited as straight couples seeing how great these open gay marriages were, and thus would want open marriages as well. If I find it I'll tack the link on here.

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #414 on: July 04, 2014, 06:42:37 PM »
I've never considered open marriage to be marriage at all.To me it's like tofurkey,kinda like the original,maybe along the same vein.Intended to be like the original.If you've never had the real bird you could say it's the same.

It's not.

Open marriage within the gay community seems(to me) to be more about getting benefits for a small subset of that population.Kinda like getting insurance and a place to sleep for a friend-with-benefits.

Like I said before,marriage is a problem for a man and a woman.Let the other combos have a civil union or whatever else they want to call it.A kumqwat maybe,whatever.
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Re:
« Reply #415 on: July 05, 2014, 12:01:34 AM »
And if promiscuity is a problem, wouldn't gay marriage be just the thing to fix that?
Are you trying to say that gay people can't or won't be faithful to a single partner without permission from the government?

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Re: Re: Re:
« Reply #416 on: July 05, 2014, 12:38:39 AM »
And if promiscuity is a problem, wouldn't gay marriage be just the thing to fix that?

Cargo cult thinking.
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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #417 on: July 05, 2014, 12:53:13 AM »
Only a single digit percentage of what is 10% (being very generous) of the population are going to be involved in a so called same sex marriage.

Way too much energy being spent on this issue IMHO.

If you are a culture warrior you are being drawn into a battle on your opponents battlefield.

I've come to the conclusion it's a dumb battle.

Let them do.
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Re: Re: Re:
« Reply #418 on: July 05, 2014, 08:53:26 AM »
The studies mention anal sex, not homosexual sex. They are not one and the same. Straight people have that kind of sex too, and homosexual people aren't limited to it. I would bet it's rather rare among homosexual women.


And if promiscuity is a problem, wouldn't gay marriage be just the thing to fix that?
Read the whole post.

The inclusion of the data in the post such as number of partners and a little math showing how frequncy effects odds of transmission is significant.

Then stretch your mind a bit and compare the above to heterosexual odds and fequencies.

Oh yeah and plus one on the cargo cult thinking.  

Otoh it worked so well eliminating formerly uncontroversial and necessary requirements for a mortgage to blast open the subprime mortgage market and instantly propel millions into middle class status because home ownership is something responsible middle class people with sober middle class values do.
Regards,

roo_ster

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roo_ster

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Re: Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #419 on: July 05, 2014, 08:56:26 AM »
Marnoot...

Recent/old whatever.  Such articles have been common since homosexual activism emerged.  Came across a link showing such over the years.  When i get in front of a real pc i will hunt for it.
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roo_ster

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #420 on: July 06, 2014, 07:46:50 PM »
Ron: conservatives can't stop talking about it, because the liberal media won't ever stop asking over and over and over. No one is asking Hillary if Bill was a horrific hateful homophobe for DADT, but anyone who's not vocally supportive will be attacked and attacked and attacked. Not fighting this is not an option.
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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #421 on: July 06, 2014, 08:16:04 PM »
>and one of the reasons was basically posited as straight couples seeing how great these open gay marriages were, and thus would want open marriages as well.<

This, I need to address.

It's the "everyone is like me" issue. Same projection issue we see in the antis, taken in a slightly different direction. Can sum it up via religious views REALLY well

For Fistful (and others, but I'm going to pick on him), Christianity speaks to him. It "works" for him. For me (and again, many others), Christianity makes no sense. That doesn't make either one of us right or wrong: it makes us different.

What you saw in that article is people who think* open marriage works for them, projecting that into the rest of the world. Fairly typical psychology there. Unfortunately, most people falling into that trap will deny it (regardless of the issue)

*I say "think open marriage works for them" because most of these folks don't have the ability to truly be in any kind of relationship, let alone put in the work for an open relationship to work
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #422 on: July 06, 2014, 08:22:41 PM »
Actually, Christianity is so far from working for me, that it calls for me to die.
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